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Opera 25? I don't like the speed dial menu

  • Google extension has stopped to work on new start page.
    Works on old one...

  • This new design is simply terrible. The previous one is just better, more stylish and more professional. The new one just looks like it has been half-assed.

  • Wait, WHERE THE HECK IS MY STASH GONE! WHY DID YOU REMOVE THAT FUNCTIONALITY?! Oh my God, this update is simply terrible. sigh

  • You can re-enable Stash by disabling bookmarks in flags.

  • I did re-enable it. I'm disappointed that you're forced to choose between Stash, and a Bookmarks Manager. So for the moment, I have the regular (non-experimental) speed dial, which I think is wonderful, and traditional Stash. All that version 25 did for me is to suggest that features I like in Opera Blink may soon be gone.

  • Focus on the positive, Lem. 😉

  • Ha. Don't I remember you -- a Presto user -- touting constructive criticism? Now I see the wisdom of your position. In the past, I have perhaps been too harsh on the Opera naysayers 🙂

    For sure, there is a positive in Version 25, which is -- for those people who don't like to use extensions, an improvement in the handling of bookmarking in the native browser. I find that since I use the extensions, Add Bookmark (an Opera extension), and Chrookmarks for Chrome, a bookmarks manager and Chrome extension, I don't need this improved bookmarking. Mine was fine. Now the other positive is I can still keep the old Speed Dial, and the old Stash. I'm focusing on the positive, focusing. oh so hard trying...

    Yikes, I just can't do it. The experimental speed dial is awful -- from my perspective. How could Opera whose aesthetics, I've always touted to the skies (this is the company, which gave us Coast for Opera in the Ipad (which for all of its nits and little problems), is heaven in terms of art and beauty. So I thought Opera had "artists" on their development team, who wanted the user to have a beautiful aesthetic experience. Didn't they give us the ability to have beautiful themes for our Speed Dial (and to collect them from the internet with a mere right click on a jpg). With the experimental Speed Dial (were it to be the future), I might as well throw out/junk/jettison the beautiful wallpaper themes I've collected. They are all overwhelmed by the candy-colored (I'd suggest, "ugly") display of garishly displayed icons. And I liked Stash as a unique extra (unrelated to bookmarks) (a cool feature that had people puzzling over "what is it for," but that was the brilliant beauty of it. It was for every person, unique to find a use. Now we end up with the pedestrian, characterization of it as unsorted bookmarks, something that I'd been too lazy to assign to a folder, and which makes a mockery of Opera's earlier treatment of Stash as a distinctive feature. I for one believe how you characterize something is important. Words have consequences. Folding it into bookmarks is a mistake. Now I grant you, push come to shove, I could live with that mistake, but not with the experimental speed dial. With that as it is, the browser becomes indefensible for me.

    In any event the positive is I can for the time being still enjoy the Speed Dial and Stash as they were. And for that, I thank Opera. Nonetheless how Opera could spring the experimental speed dial on users (do they care at all about aesthetics? do they have advisers on that?), I cannot fathom. Of course, needing to be corrected also are mundane things in the experimental speed dial, like speed dial folders that have a title that people who use the browser can see or else the user will be disoriented or lost (if they have a significant number of folders). For the first time, especially with this experimental speed dial, I am worried about the direction the company is moving in. Today experiment can be writ in stone. And I would consider that a disaster.

  • Ha. Don't I remember you -- a Presto user -- touting constructive criticism? Now I see the wisdom of your position.
    ... Mine was fine. ... I'm focusing on the positive, focusing. oh so hard trying...
    Yikes, I just can't do it. ... Words have consequences. ...
    In any event the positive is I can for the time being still enjoy the Speed Dial and Stash as they were. And for that, I thank Opera. Nonetheless, I am worried about the direction Opera is moving in.

    @lem, in reading your post, I just experienced a wave of deja-vu, only inverted by 180 degrees, from a year and a half ago. Your immediate reactions are precisely the kind of feelings stimulated in technical users of Presto "back when" the features and familiarities they had come to rely on for years suddenly evaporated. Replies that "Opera knows best" or "it's for the broader user-base" supply little consolation in such a moment.

    That having been said (and, sorry, I do confess to a certain sadistic satisfaction in saying it 😉 ), the underlying truth remains that Opera is adapting to a variety of user needs, if ever so slowly and perhaps in 'fits-and-starts'. That of itself is highly encouraging to some of us, because adaptation to users was the hallmark that for years set Opera aside from all those other, 'monolithic' makers of browsers, who were as responsive to user wants/needs as were bricks. There is indeed life in the Opera tree... and where there's life, there's hope. The truth here is that the hope for Opera's continued existence and the re-creation of a truly amazing browser lies in the Opera developers themselves and their growing ability to create, adapt, and evolve concepts that make the browser a useful extension of real, live users. The process of evolving the browser will be painful at times for some users, but at least it now appears there's really a user-responsive process at work.

  • I can see in the experimental speed dial no justification in terms of adapting to users. It's "plain and simple" garish and awful. As for the treatment of Stash, it's a gaffe in treatment and semantics, but of lesser significance. Look, if Opera were ditching technical users, because they wanted to make an aesthetically pleasing browser that more people could enjoy (and get a bigger market), that, I think everyone could understand (even if some might be unhappy with it). Business is business. Why shouldn't a company try to get more users. But with this move, Opera is moving towards ditching something aesthetically pleasing for candy-colored, garish nothing. The improvement in bookmarking in the native browser does not require destroying the distinctive traditional Speed Dial with folders, or even getting rid of Stash. The experimental speed dial does nothing for power users, like you, @blackbird71. All Opera would do, if it makes the experimental speed dial, its dial of the future, is destroy the speed dial for people who had been enjoying the aesthetics of it. It's like a company shooting itself in the foot. It's a self-inflicted wound. They may as well delete their page on themes. opera://themes/ They're no longer needed with the experimental speed dial. What pleasure could/should anyone take (even Presto users) in something as crazy as that.

    And by the way, people have complained about the fact that Opera Blink no longer gives people the ability to change the appearance of their browser with skins, which was an aesthetic feature, that people generally liked. I responded to that, by pointing out the positive, and saying that at least, you could dress up your Speed Dial page with beautiful themes. It was the one area, where Opera gave users some chance at self-expression and making their browser "home" beautiful. Now we have -- were the experimental speed dial to become the dial of the future -- no skins AND essentially no themes. Because the garish blotches and splotches of icons in the experimental speed dial makes the display of wallpaper a joke. In sum, I see no reason for Presto users to be pleased with this (other than in taking 🙂 perverse pleasure in people who enjoyed the new Opera Blink getting a cuff or two from the company). Rather, this experimental speed dial (because it really gives nothing to power/Presto users, and just shoots itself in the foot with people who want a pleasing browser experience), supports the reading that Opera is losing its way. Anyway, that's my opinion.

  • The improvement in bookmarking in the native browser does not require destroying the distinctive traditional Speed Dial with folders, or even getting rid of Stash.

    Since when it's traditional? :lol:
    Do you mean counting the numbers of releases? :lol:

  • The Speed Dial with folders (using thumbnails) has been with Opera Blink (it is my understanding) since it's inception in Opera 15. So a movement to the -- ugh -- experimental Dial would be a huge change. It would break with the tradition of 10 - 11 releases (since you can still use the traditional speed dial with folders in Version 25). Many people who liked Opera Blink were drawn to its speed dial, with the wonderful ability to use the wallpaper and themes. Certainly, the experimental speed dial (if it became Opera's only Speed Dial) would kill the use of wallpaper and themes. With its garish iconic display, why bother? And since there's no ability to change skins in Opera Blink, the opportunity for self-expression would be history. Is this the future of a browser for the purported masses? I can see no positive in that.

  • ... But with this move, Opera is moving towards ditching something aesthetically pleasing for candy-colored, garish nothing. The improvement in bookmarking in the native browser does not require destroying the distinctive traditional Speed Dial with folders, or even getting rid of Stash. ... It's a self-inflicted wound. ... In sum, I see no reason for Presto users to be pleased with this (other than in taking perverse pleasure in people who enjoyed the new Opera Blink getting a cuff or two from the company). Rather, this experimental speed dial (because it really gives nothing to power/Presto users, and just shoots itself in the foot with people who want a pleasing browser experience), supports the reading that Opera is losing its way. Anyway, that's my opinion.

    Please don't misread my comments as an overall attitude of gloating. I actually agree with most all of your sentiments. But I suspect that what we're seeing is the slow-motion, piecewise evolution of a browser... and what exists at one moment of time (in any one version) may only be a single 'whack' taken at the brush-pile of things needing to be done. With Opera's rapid release schedule, being driven in large measure by the "3rd-party" chromium/Blink engine updating schedules, versions are being moved out to "stable release" at whatever point of change happens to exist at a particular moment. The key criteria for a new stable version release is degree of stability of whatever's in it, not necessarily how it currently looks or whether it's at the "form" or "appearance (nor even necessarily "functional") point where the developers intend to ultimately go. Refinements can always be added; appearances can always be improved; Blink functionalities can always be restored... but they all take development time and the "want to".

    In the old release system, things weren't bumped out the final door until they were largely ready: stability, fit, form, function, and appearance. But that cannot apply any longer where Blink engine updates are essentially pushing the whole release cycle. Indeed, "words have consequences", but points of reality have greater consequences.

    If it were ever true before, it's especially true now, to constructively express user reaction to versions that are issued at all stages, to let Opera know the user pinch-points so that Opera developers can re-prioritize what they have to focus on and emphasize as they swat at all the releases going past.

    And frankly, this is all yet another reason I wish Opera would allow users to easily skip versions (block auto-updates). That way, users could retain what works for them and skip over versions that they deem unacceptable for whatever reason until such time as the versions perhaps evolve to where they offer relief in that area.

  • "Criteria" is plural, Black. 😛
    It's like "bacteria" - plural of "bacterium". Or "paraphernalia" (no singular form is in actual use now).

  • Google extension has stopped to work on new start page.
    Works on old one...

    It looks like all Speed Dial extensions are not compatible with the new New Tab. Any word on when the fix is going to arrive?

    Also, are the developers working on HiDPI/Retina compatibility with Speed Dial extensions? My text scaling is set to 200% and extensions' fonts are all super magnified and not very readable, as a result.

  • this is all yet another reason I wish Opera would allow users to easily skip versions (block auto-updates). That way, users could retain what works for them and skip over versions that they deem unacceptable for whatever reason until such time as the versions perhaps evolve to where they offer relief in that area.

    I agree with you there. Of course, fortunately for purposes of the Speed Dial and even Stash, you can within version 25 keep what you had. The problem is even something like the traditional Speed Dial with folders (that has gone through more than 10 releases) is no longer secure for the future. The Experimental Dial makes one think, "this" is what Opera has in mind for the future. Some of my comfort with Opera, and overlooking other problems were because I so liked what they did with that original Blink Speed Dial, and because they had kept it for so long, I assumed Opera understood that it was really nice. When you want to make changes to really fine, you need a scalpel, not as out of Psycho, a meat cleaver. Now I'm not sure what they think about the Speed Dial they want for the future, or whether they give a hang about making the browser pleasing in appearance, giving the user wallpaper/theme options, etc.

  • They've employed Indian babas to make it "pleasing" - via their black magic!

    (Almost forgot! Call +91-123-123-555-123!)

  • ... fortunately for purposes of the Speed Dial and even Stash, you can within version 25 keep what you had. The problem is even something like the traditional Speed Dial with folders (that has gone through more than 10 releases) is no longer secure for the future. The Experimental Dial makes one think, "this" is what Opera has in mind for the future. Some of my comfort with Opera, and overlooking other problems were because I so liked what they did with that original Blink Speed Dial, and because they had kept it for so long, I assumed Opera understood that it was really nice. When you want to make changes to really fine, you need a scalpel, not as out of Psycho, a meat cleaver. Now I'm not sure what they think about the Speed Dial they want for the future, or whether they give a hang about making the browser pleasing in appearance, giving the user wallpaper/theme options, etc.

    I recall when I was in the throes of "radical reaction" to the first version of Blink Opera, it was somebody - perhaps @leushino, perhaps not? - who reminded me (accurately) at the time that all browsers are continually changing, and all browser features are subject to change, whether we happen to like it or not. When the features altered are "other folks' features", the changes are far easier to deal with than when they're ones we ourselves have come to like, use, and rely upon. This is one reason why I've always favored especially those browser brands that provide for feature/functionality/adjustability "depth", so that a wider variety of users can configure the browser to meet their personal needs and preferences. Old Opera did that extremely well, in part because it and its developers had been around for so long, and tended to incorporate change via options which allowed a user to bypass them (to some extent) via panel/menu settings if they wanted. Perhaps Old Opera even did that too well, based on the (to me) amazing variety of complaints about what has disappeared with the Blink Opera versions. But in any case, I hope Opera devs find ways to incorporate different ways of displaying some of their functions so that you and I (and others) can each set things up more along the lines we each may prefer.

    I personally believe that, unless Opera has completely lost its bearings (which I seriously doubt), over time its developers will find ways to insert feature richness and adaptability a step at a time. It will never become Presto, nor should it... it's architecturally different, and the world has changed in some ways. But Opera will adapt to its user wants/needs by incorporating optional and various ways to do certain things in its interface... either that, or it will fall by the market wayside to the big browser houses and their heavily mass-marketed, plain-vanilla browsers. The challenge will be for Opera to incorporate its changes without continually alienating portions of its still-small user base. The challenge for users will be to exhibit patience in the process... and that remains a tough challenge at times, with Opera's tradition of keeping its own counsel on what it plans on doing, how, and when.

  • @blackbird71: Thanks for the optimism. I think I agree with you. :cheers:
    Still, Jon Von Tetzchner departure from Opera is not a good sign - imagine what would have happened to Apple's image if Steve Jobs left it back in the day.

  • I finally installed Opera 25. Verdict?

    So far I don't like it. I'll mess around with the New Bookmarks setup a bit more the rest of today and tomorrow, but I don't expect my opinion will change. I can only speak for myself. The reason I don't like it is because:

    (1) At this point the LOOK has regressed to that flat as a sheet of paper ubiquitous Metro / Retro ... Windows 8.x Blocks-ish look that every bit of software seems to be changing to nowadays. I hate that flat, simplistic, back into the past look.

    (2) The Bookmarks Manager or whatever it is is basically another Speed Dial and I've never liked and have never supported or used the Speed Dial. IMO, the new Bookmarks setup is less efficient than the pre-Opera 25 Bookmarks Bar setup. With the pre-Opera 25 Bookmarks Bar I can get to any bookmark much faster. Hopefully the pre-Opera 25 Bookmarks Bar setup isn't 86ed.

    (3) The gmail extension does not work on Opera 25.

    Hopefully the changes and LOOK in Opera 25 is as someone alluded to ... just a stepping stone in the eventual LOOK and functionality.

  • You can set the bookmark manager into a vertical display, rather than the squares. There are two options for how you want to view it. I still think the Opera extension, Add Bookmark, works better than the new Opera Bookmarks Manager, at least for adding bookmarks to your Bookmarks Bar. The Bookmarks manager is useful for the old Stash type functions -- unsorted bookmarks, read later, create a folder for anything you want, etc.

    My gmail is still working.

    I'm using Gmail checker, though, which is no longer available for download. And Gmelius.

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