Make it usable - new Opera

  • Welcome. I'm highly disappointed you dropped Presto because it was the fastest engine at some time. Do you really believe in collaboration with Internet monopolist and success of Chromium Opera? Nevertheless, new Opera is fast but naked as they day it was born. I don't mind your idea of lightweight UI but paradoxically it's hard to use and configure. I tried to switch to new Opera but it still lacks of must-be-implemented features. Finally, I performed clean install of Opera 12.17.

    ###1. Plugins on demand - no button to enable plugins
    Since site preferences feature has been gone, there is no way to set custom settings for domains. You can set exceptions in general options. Some music players have HTML interface and Flash Player <object> is hidden. In old Opera you can click "enable plugins" button in address bar. It's not present in new Opera. Firefox asks you whether to enable plugins on website. You can think of another solution. If you detect hidden <object> then display a popup or show an icon.

    ###2. Inflexible interface
    For example I want "bookmarks" button (Opera 12) or bookmark panel (possible in Firefox) next to address bar. You could change almost everything in Opera 12. Of course, you can create extensions but they're not as fast as native code.

    ###3. Bookmarks
    Fortunately, bookmarks are back. However, in Opera 12, I complained about speed dial and bookmarks duality. Opera 15 was intended to have only speed dial and stash but in case of 1000 bookmarks they're inconvenient. There is no simple solution to keep it simple and powerful but ask users for opinions and feedback.

    ###4. Right-click useless on UI?
    Want to show bookmark bar? No other way than in options.

    ###5. Dragonfly
    Chrome developer tools are also decent but lack of some Dragonfly power features (e.g. more convenient console). If you can't implement Dragonfly in new Opera, don't do it. Browsing features are more important.

    ###6. Download manager
    Opera 12 had powerful download manager. Now you cannot open file without saving it. It's also misleading for beginners.

    PS. When we asked some Opera developer why some modern CSS features were unimplemented, he answered companies should donate laptops to African children instead of spending money to round borders, shadows and transforms. Maybe that's an idea of modern Opera development. But when we asked about Dragonfly (developer tools in Opera 10.10 were ugly and weak), he answered "we focus on features".

    I will post more important features when I notice it while testing new Opera.

  • You can change Plugins to on-demand in settings. The devs are implementing an wonderful bookmark manager. About the interface, I have never seen a Chromim-based browser with flexible interface. I think the developers are putting the new features because they realize it is impossible to fight forever.

  • I think the developers are putting the new features because they realize it is impossible to fight forever.

    What do you mean by that? They fight to oppose demanding crowd of users? If so that would explain the lack of any innovation in Opera. It's just chromium with different color theme, people slowly start to realize that and abandon the browser, after losing hope it would become as usable as Opera 12 was. I'm still hoping a little but you know it's frustrating...

  • WebKit is thriving and that's where the open-source community puts their bets and contributions.

    New Opera is slick and minimalistic, but it takes baby steps to get it right (I completely understand that) - better than going full retard like Australis+Firefox. Actually Australis was the reason I came here in the first place and I really, really liked the new Opera.

    I can also understand that for die-hard Opera fans it is hard to see alot of the features disappear in the latest version.

    I think what really explains all this is one word:

    "Innovation"

    It's a nice clean slate for Opera and it will become less inspired by others and more unique in it's own way, because of thought out details.

  • I hope it will. Because it WAS innovative, you could do so many things "out of the box" without relying on extensions. Now even with extensions chromium's API kills even that little hope to bring back side panels.

  • in which perspective switch a presto airplane for a cheap chrome car is a innovation?

  • in which perspective switch a presto airplane for a cheap chrome car is a innovation?

    That cheap car can be updated easily.

  • Sure but ain't.

    For example, how many times people complained about the lack of stupid "open" option in dialog box @ downloading files? Where is it?

    Other thing I needed to manually remove all descriptions from my bookmarks bar to get only icons there. Again lack of 12.XX simplest ever option "show icons only".

    Did the Presto team got fired or what?

    I can't believe devs who created such cusomizable and well-thought-out product as 12.XX deal with the new "innovation" way named "Opera" again.

    If I would to use Chrome I could use a Chrome not Opera.
    Seems like marketing wins this time we'll see for how long...

  • Did the Presto team got fired or what?

    Yes, they were fired after the change. They spent a lot of time trying to make Presto compatible with the internet insted of improvements, they had tp change to Blink to make a better a program and that had a price: miss some features.

  • No, the Presto team did not "get fired", at least as a group. Opera reorganized its design group around the chromium/Blink browser engine, so some Presto developers remained with Opera in new task assignments while some others left Opera for other jobs. This was all hashed out in Opera statements and forum discussions some 18 months ago... and this is not the time to resurrect old mis-understandings.

  • Tbh I missed the whole Opera forum and past discussion anyway.

    I installed my first opera some 10 years ago, turned auto-update on and had been happy untill I tried those 25 innovations.

    I switched from 12.17 to 24 a week agoo and... got disapointed.
    I switched mostly because of those youtube fonts wich got mad and messed up.
    The rest of imortant sites I visit works well still (hope).

    So it looks like I have to use two independent browsers nowadays and it's zzzz...

    The main question is why there isn't any significant feedback from the the suggestions topic at all?

  • The main question is why there isn't any significant feedback from the the suggestions topic at all?

    The answer is because most users are fine with the new Opera. Millions use the Blink browser and that number is growing. It is only a handful of disgruntled former Presto users that continually stir the waters of discontent, demanding this and that. New features ARE being added back into Opera and each version improves it.

  • Millions use the Blink browser and that number is growing.

    Have you got any credible statstics to show or just blablaing?

    Im rather curious how many ppl left Opera since 15.

  • Read this: http://www.zdnet.com/show-me-the-money-how-opera-started-thinking-about-the-bottom-line-and-what-that-did-to-its-software-7000026604/

    And do your own searching for numbers. I'm not going to do your leg work for you.

  • As a newcomer to Opera not sure what the above history is all about, all I can say it is the best browser I have ever used. So glad I switched.

  • @kernow1: welcome to the forums and to Opera. You're a breath of fresh air. :cheers:

  • @leushino

    Read this: http://www.zdnet.com/show-me-the-money-how-opera-started-thinking-about-the-bottom-line-and-what-that-did-to-its-software-7000026604/

    Good to read those wishes.

    Millions use the Blink browser and that number is growing.

    And do your own searching for numbers. I'm not going to do your leg work for you.

    I did and...

    http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

    Eot.

  • I did and...
    http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
    Eot.

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Which means nothing, as it apparently includes usage stats for Presto Opera too. Which, according to this page are in decline, but Blink Opera's are on the increase. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!.

  • I wouldn't "loling" so much.
    Even if, it means that more ppl are leaving "Opera" than discovering its new features @ Blink at all.

    The sum does matter, considering fact so many ppl use the Presto still. The Presto engile won't be compatible with sites more and more, it doesn't matter those angry ppl will switch to Blink automatically.

    It should be sign for devs to apply those old features faster.

  • The problem remains that the new Opera lacks features which the users want. Many people simply stick with their browser because that is what they always used, including me. I liked old Opera and I want to see the new Opera re-implement the core Opera experience: depth of features and customization. I don't really care that much about the engine behind it as long as it allows me to do what I want to do how I want to do it.
    Now I look at Opera and I see that it allows me to do most basic things which I need to do but I don't think that is enough to gain new users and it will leave older users like me very sad. There are other browsers out there which do the exact same thing and most people will choose one of the others. Do you really think the average user will choose Opera? No, they use Chrome or Firefox or IE. Admittedly this is because most people don't spend any amount of time on researching what the different browsers offer, they just use the most popular or familiar one. But if we look at those people that matter for Opera, people who look at all the browsers and what they offer to decide which one to use, then what is there about Opera that would make people use Opera over Chrome? "It's not Google." is the only one I could think of. And Firefox? I don't really know.
    And if we take a look at those who chose to stay like me then we see that many of them are really only one or two steps away from switching because honestly we are only staying here because we liked old Opera and because new Opera is still okay as a browser, nothing out there which is so much better that I would switch. But take one or two broken things and those people are gone.
    While Opera is still not up to par with old Opera it also is lagging behind Chrome and every time I run into a feature that does not work in Opera I get a little bit more annoyed and a little bit closer to just switching to Chrome completely. Recent example: HTML5 video support on YouTube with regards to h.264 licensing and MSE for the DASH player.
    And I don't even know if Opera is aware of this or if they want or can do anything about it. If I were certain that they would solve it I would be able to endure it more easily but like this I might just one day say "Fuck it I don't know why I'm doing this to myself, there it nothing about Opera that I could not get elsewhere and plenty of things that I don't get from Opera at all." and then I'm gone.
    Opera has what kind of marketshare? Less than five percent?
    At some point the Opera team should stop for a minute and ask themselves "Why Opera instead of a different browser?". And I give you a hint: Some marketing buzzwords about speed and stuff is not the answer.
    Take a look at the website and how Opera advertises itself. Take a look at every other browser's advertisement. They spew the same buzzwords but people actually have heard about them. If you present people with a choice between different free products which are mostly the same they will always choose the one that they are more familiar with.
    Do something Opera team and please offer a reason why you should exist because currently I can't find anything but the hope that you might return to your former glory and that is declining with every single day of uncertainty and compatibility problems.

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