Opera 12 vs 23

A Former User

Are the following features available in Opera 23 that are in the 12.17:

content blocking
Ability to view the "alt" tag when images fail to load
Ability to get a menu bar back
Changing look and feel to dialog based from browser based like Chrome
use of proxy server separate from the Windows proxy

It seems like the 12 is better than the 23 since it has all the features I use.

A Former User

Only via extensions.
Only if you right-click the image placeholder and select "Inspect element" so you can read it directly in the source code. Anyway it's a bug https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=773
No, but you can click the Opera button or press Alt - and the mnemonics are present.
I don't get exactly what you're saying... Opera follows the color scheme of the OS on Windows Vista and up. You can apply a Speed Dial background theme.
I don't think so.

lem729

lem729

It seems like the 12 is better than the 23 since it has all the features I use.

Nope, Opera 23 is better. It's faster, accesses sites better, can use far more extensions than Opera 12 can (giving it much more in possibilities), has a speed dial with folders that is state of the art, far better than the one in Opera 12. And a lot more . . .
But you said better for you. And I understand that. We all have features we use. And that determines the browser that works for us. It's an individual thing. As for content blocking, there are excellent content blockers via extension for Opera 23, like Ad Block or Ad Block plus. On the menu bar, all you have to do is click on the Opera logo on the upper left of the browser, or press the Alt key on the keyboard (just one key, a perfect toggle) to Open the menu, or press Alt F, so not having the menu is fine, because you save the browser real estate. On look and feel, you can change the look and feel of the Speed Dial with wonderful art work -- either from Opera, your own on your computer, or by just right clicking on art that you find on the internet.

Deleted User

Deleted User

By look and feel he "might" mean skins which are NOT available in Opera 23 and in all probability will not be available in future iterations of the browser. Otherwise, if he is not talking about skins, I'm not certain what he means.

A Former User

It seems like the 12 is better than the 23 since it has all the features I use.

Nope, Opera 23 is better. It's faster, accesses sites better, can use far more extensions than Opera 12 can (giving it much more in possibilities), has a speed dial with folders that is state of the art, far better than the one in Opera 12. And a lot more . . .
But you said better for you. And I understand that. We all have features we use. And that determines the browser that works for us. It's an individual thing. As for content blocking, there are excellent content blockers via extension for Opera 23, like Ad Block or Ad Block plus. On the menu bar, all you have to do is click on the Opera logo on the upper left of the browser, or press the Alt key on the keyboard (just one key, a perfect toggle) to Open the menu, or press Alt F, so not having the menu is fine, because you save the browser real estate. On look and feel, you can change the look and feel of the Speed Dial with wonderful art work -- either from Opera, your own on your computer, or by just right clicking on art that you find on the internet.

What is meant by access sites better?

lem729

lem729

Too many sites weren't working in Opera Presto. Not that it was necessarily Presto's fault. A lot of developers may have coded their sites to work with Google, Firefox, and Internet Explorer (not Presto which had only a tiny market share). They may not even have bothered to test their site with Opera Presto. Now one could try to hide identity with Presto (through a user-agent switcher) (to mask the browser as Chrome or Firefox) but too often, it didn't work. More websites definitely should work in Opera 23 since it is using the same engine as Google (most websites are tested in Chrome, and developed with that browser in mind). That's not to say that there still aren't, sometimes problems rendering websites in the new Opera, or in Chrome, for that matter.

And I guess the new web has changing programming and features. An example is with html 5 compliance where, it is my understanding, Opera Blink (the new Opera) does quite a bit better than Opera Presto in supporting it. https://html5test.com/results/desktop.html.

Mostly though I think it may be because web developers primarily target webkit in building their site, and Blink (which both Opera and Google use) is a rendering engine based on webkit. Now Opera has committed its resources to the new Opera -- Opera 23 -- and is not working on Opera Presto (Opera 12.17), so while the new Opera will likely continue to improve in being able to have websites work with it, Presto (without maintenance work and undating) is likely to become even more outdated.

Here's an interesting comment by an Opera CEO at http://www.zdnet.com/show-me-the-money-how-opera-started-thinking-about-the-bottom-line-and-what-that-did-to-its-software-7000026604/.

"We've got twice as many developers on the desktop browser now than we had with Presto, because all [our] resources went into maintaining Presto. The only error we made with Presto was that we kept it too long. Our change to Blink was because we wanted to get on the offensive with regards to innovation, we used too many resources to keep Presto competitive."

Deleted User

Deleted User

Here's an interesting comment by an Opera CEO at http://www.zdnet.com/show-me-the-money-how-opera-started-thinking-about-the-bottom-line-and-what-that-did-to-its-software-7000026604/.
"We've got twice as many developers on the desktop browser now than we had with Presto, because all [our] resources went into maintaining Presto. The only error we made with Presto was that we kept it too long. Our change to Blink was because we wanted to get on the offensive with regards to innovation, we used too many resources to keep Presto competitive."

Beautiful words from Opera's CEO

Deleted User

Deleted User

I've just gotta say, I'm truly stunned by all this love for the "new" Opera. I've been an Opera user for right around 18 years now, and used to be on the beta testing team, and everything we used to love about Opera has been stripped away in lieu of what appears to simply be a clone of Chrome with an Opera skin over it. Maybe the new engine works better; I honestly coulnd't say since using this new browser is an excersize in frustration that usually leads to me going back to 12 to get anything done, but if we've got to have a Chrome clone forced on us, why take away the features that made Opera awesome and unique? Just mindboggling.

lem729

lem729

Now you say, "everything we used to love about Chrome has been stripped away." Speak for yourself! The new Opera is not a Chrome clone. I'm quite mindboggled that you would make such an inapt comparison. I'm not going to go through all the differences because this is highly repetitive of what's been posted before. It's very much a different browser than Chrome -- very much faster than Opera Presto, a super Speed Dial (with folders) (Chrome has nothing that comes close) (nor did Presto), Stash, Turbo Mode, Discover (I haven't found these features in Chrome either, and I use and enjoy the Discover features), the extensions are terrific (a big plus over what was in Opera Presto). Yes, I admit you can get extensions with Chrome, though we have access not only to Chrome extensions, but also to extensions in the Opera Store (and I believe the monitoring may be better over the extensions by Opera, than Chrome monitoring in the Chrome store, at least, I seem to have read something to that effect. Also, in my experience Opera Blink has a lighter computer footprint than Chrome. Ties up less of my CPU. See also this discussion post by Rafaelluik comparing Opera Blink to Chrome, https://forums.opera.com/post/42825
I love the new Opera, and strongly encourage people to try it. Now I have been using Opera for many years -- going back to the time you paid to use it -- around 10 years. The fact is, though, that while I enjoyed Opera Presto, I didn't use many of the features that were bundled with it. I prefer the model where I get the extensions/features that I want. And what comes in the native browser is great with me. I like what's there, and I can more than fill in the gaps via extensions.

Deleted User

Deleted User

...why take away the features that made Opera awesome and unique? Just mindboggling.

Features were not taken away. The browser has been completely rewritten so that some features from the older, discontinued Presto browser were not added. That is a big difference. The new browser is changing monthly and becoming increasingly popular. Granted, it may not be for you but I happen to love it. It takes a bit of work to find extensions in order to add the functionality that you require (or want). Some users are lazy and can't be bothered. If you're missing something, ask and perhaps we can assist you in finding that missing feature. Then again... ???

A Former User

Unfortunately, the extensions approach presents significant issues security-wise: Correct me if I am wrong, but it's been my understanding of the APIs used by extensions that in order to change something in a page, I must enable javascript for that page. E.g. if I want to duplicate the Opera 12's "translate" function, I need to install a translation extension which will only work if I enable javascript for all pages, because otherwise it won't be able to access the text selection and send it to Google Translate. The same is true for e.g. adding custom keyboard shortcuts. Unfortunately, this is a security nightmare - javascript is by far the most common attack vector against browsers, and enabling it indiscriminately results in a greatly increased risk. That's one of the reasons the functionality should be present in the browser itself, not in an extension - because then it will work even with javascript disabled (e.g. the tools around "inspect element" work like this).

dobledosis

dobledosis

Come on "lem729", you are a Opera employee, you can't defend the ChrOpera! Open your eyes and see the amount of angry users that are claiming the old opera options. For me Opera definitely was THE BEST browser, i WAS a BIG Opera fan. Now I'm just outraged, months have passed and nothing has changed. None of the old features that distinguished Opera from the other browsers has been added.

"I've just gotta say, I'm truly stunned by all this love for the "new" Opera. I've been an Opera user for right around 18 years now, and used to be on the beta testing team, and everything we used to love about Opera has been stripped away in lieu of what appears to simply be a clone of Chrome with an Opera skin over it. Maybe the new engine works better; I honestly coulnd't say since using this new browser is an excersize in frustration that usually leads to me going back to 12 to get anything done, but if we've got to have a Chrome clone forced on us, why take away the features that made Opera awesome and unique? Just mindboggling."

+1

Deleted User

Deleted User

Come on "lem729", you are a Opera employee, you can't defend the ChrOpera! Open your eyes and see the amount of angry users that are claiming the old opera options. For me Opera definitely was THE BEST browser, i WAS a BIG Opera fan. Now I'm just outraged, months have passed and nothing has changed. None of the old features that distinguished Opera from the other browsers has been added.
"I've just gotta say, I'm truly stunned by all this love for the "new" Opera. I've been an Opera user for right around 18 years now, and used to be on the beta testing team, and everything we used to love about Opera has been stripped away in lieu of what appears to simply be a clone of Chrome with an Opera skin over it. Maybe the new engine works better; I honestly coulnd't say since using this new browser is an excersize in frustration that usually leads to me going back to 12 to get anything done, but if we've got to have a Chrome clone forced on us, why take away the features that made Opera awesome and unique? Just mindboggling."
+1

He is not an Opera's employee, he just can see what it is really good. Opera hás an wonderful speed dial which no browser has it. The devs are bringing back a beautiful bookmark manager. Opera will never be Chrome, I know it, I had used Chrome for a long time. Opera made a sacrifice to become bigger. Presto wasn't competitive and it was very difficult to maintaining it.

A Former User

Well I don't know, but to each his own. I don't see the advantages of the new opera right now. When I first started using opera back in 2007 it was way more hassle than it is in 12x. My bank website didn't work properly and I actually needed the "open with" function. Now, while on occasion I still get the browser compatibility warnings, chase and and turbo tax websites for example, they still work fine.

So if some of us find the old opera more productive, then there is really no need to switch for now, especially for a little more speed and the occasional website that is more compatible.

My theory is I will always use whatever product does the things I do the most the best. Hell, I still use a palm pre2 smart phone which runs webos, an abandoned operating system. Truth be told, with all the newness of the androids and iphones it still does the basics the best. For those who never heard of such a thing heres a pretty good read from Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ianmorris/2014/06/16/ive-discovered-the-best-smartphone-of-all-time-and-its-from-2011/

supernicknick

supernicknick

I wouldnt call leushino and lem729 spamming all the threads with defensive comments "love". It is pretty funny though how far the fanboism can go.

Deleted User

Deleted User

Here is perfect irony. People come on here and whine about the new Opera and threaten to abandon it for Chrome and/or Firefox. They say that the new Opera's reliance upon extensions puts it at a security risk. Well... I have a flash news item for you: Chrome and FF both rely heavily upon extensions so you'd better not be heading to one of those browsers. Seamonkey also uses extensions and IE11 is heading in that direction. You can whine all you like but those are the simple facts and Opera is going to continue in that direction along with all the other major browser makers. You cannot continue to live in the 90's. As was mentioned earlier, Opera wasted most of its resources just trying to keep the older Presto browser going. There was very little left for R&D. Those days are now gone forever so make a decision: stick with the old (a very unwise and insecure decision), head over to one of the other browsers (but be prepared for bloat and for extensions galore) OR stick with the new Opera and try and open your minds and be a little more adaptable. But please: spare us the constant whining.

lem729

lem729

Come on "lem729", you are a Opera employee, you can't defend the ChrOpera!
+1

Oh for a paycheck to help pay rent. Alas, it isn't to be. Look, I'm just a user, like you. And my good man, it is extremely easy for me to defend the new Opera, though I don't like the word "defend.". I'd rather talk about extolling the virtues of. I don't need a million features I don't use bundled in the native browser, nor am I going to nod my head and say how wonderful and essential those features are, just because a small group of power users *unlike the vast bulk of the browsing universe," unable to adjust to the extension concept, and still living in maybe the browsing 90s, wants those features, all included in the native browser. Personally, I do not like that "bundling" concept. I think the extension model is exactly right, at least for me. Yes, I can understand how others might have different needs, and might differ. Personally, I love (there, supernicknick, I said the "l" word ;)) the extra features, distinguishing Opera from Chrome, including, for sure, the totally superb speed dial, better than any other one on the planet, in my humble opinion. And I also find useful Discover, Stash, and Turbo mode.

Speaking of Stash, I understand how in Opera 25 (still in testing) one will have a choice between enhanced bookmarks and Stash. With my bookmarks manager extension, Chrookmarks for Chrome, and the opera extension, Add Bookmark, I'm very satisfied right now with bookmarking in Opera, so I'm leaning to choosing to keep Stash over enhanced bookmarking and losing Stash. I'd prefer not to have to make the choice, but if I do, that's what I'm currently thinking.

dobledosis

dobledosis

I know the new Opera is faster and works better but theres no big difference with other browsers like before. When i started using old opera i always had many problems at several sites, we all suffer that, but all the functions of opera kept me gripped and made me ignore those problems. Mainly the speed dial, the password manager was GREAT for me, the bookmarks, dragon fly was better in my opinion, the private tabs and the customizable Opera was.

So "lem729", if we all suffer the problems with presto that other browsers didn't have, and you say you don't care about all the functions that old opera has, what made you a user of the old opera? I don't understand..

Extensions? The extensions are not made by Opera and no one can assure me that with new updates of Opera i won't have problems with extensions, nor do I have the trust gives me Opera.

Months have passed and nothing has changed, many users are complaining and we have no answers. Why does it take so long? Or they don't plan to answer our complaints?

lem729

lem729

So "lem729", if we all suffer the problems with presto that other browsers didn't have, and you say you don't care about all the functions that old opera has, what made you a user of the old opera? I don't understand..>

I used some of the features in Presto. I didn't use a lot of them. Still, I generally enjoyed the browser. I liked the skins and colors (Now I get my artistic pleasure in the New Opera setting up beautiful wallpaper for the Speed Dial). I think it's great how you can -- among other ways to add art to it -- simply right click on a jpg on the internet, and instantly have it saved as wallpaper for the Speed Dial. It was a close call for me between Opera Presto and Firefox, as I was drawn to the extensions in Firefox. In balance, I still preferred Opera. I used the side panel, the notes function, the wand, the Speed Dial when it came out, and some widgets. (Now for some reason, I don't miss the side panel. I like the present design of Opera, am used to it). I can get nice vertical of my bookmarks with my bookmarks manager extension, Chrookmarks for Chrome.

On the new Opera, I don't find it any more for me a close call at all between Opera 23 and another browser. Opera 23 wins in a walk. I love the minimalist look, the "really" superb speed dial, the ability to get the type of extensions I coveted in Firefox. (Some of the extensions like Chrookmarks for Chrome and Add Bookmark together help me to meet all my traditional bookmarking needs (I can even hide the bookmark bar in Opera, saving space). Then on top of that now I have the Speed Dial (with folders) (what a bonus), and Stash. Now I use ctrl B as a keyboard shortcut for Chrookmarks, so can access my bookmarks in a flash. You know the ability to set up a keyboard shortcut for your extensions is a really nice feature, that I only discovered recently.

Some people with Opera liked Tab stacking and grouping. I didn't use those features with Opera, but I'm using Tab Bundler (a Chrome extension), and it's sort of like grouping/stacking, only better, because I can keep my tab organization, even if I close the tab (and save computer resources). (It's still there when I open my tab bundler unless I choose to close it out completely). Now let me tell you, no matter how I set up Firefox, I can't get it to look as good as Opera 23, or run as efficiently. I don't find that it runs as fast as my Opera 23 does either.

Extensions? The extensions are not made by Opera and no one can assure me that with new updates of Opera I won't have problems with extensions, nor do I have the trust gives me Opera.>

I believe the Opera extension called "Download Chrome Extension" (which makes it possible to download a Chrome Extension from the Chrome store) (Extension Source Viewer does also). Now there are no guarantees in life, so something can always go wrong Who could assure you otherwise? But it's simple to install an extension and to uninstall it if you don't like it, or if it causes you problems. (You can even keep it, but put it in a deactivated status). I have a Chrome extension called, "One Click Extensions Manager" and if I'm worry that my computer has slowed down, with one click, I can deactivate every extension and test.

Look, all of the major browsers go the extension route, or will . . . The latest convert is Internet Explorer. They will be expanding their extensions to compete. Firefox and Chrome are wedded to extension, so you have to get used to extensions, or you have nothing.

Now the problem with the non-extension route is that a company has to put together a huge conglomeration/mix of things to appeal to a lot of different people, many of who won't care about a significant percentage of the items in the browser. And also, the browser is offered free. What company economically could afford (to put the time and energy into research and development) to bundle all of the features. I think the extension model is terrific. You get a basic, native browser -- and Opera is now fast, attractive, minimalist in appearance, with some wonderful features like the speed dial (with folders no less), and the Discover feature (giving you perspectives of news from multiple countries and in different languages) (I like to read the news in it in English, and also in French (with a view to France and Canada).

And then everyone who uses the new Opera can add to the native browser different things to fit their own unique needs. Just because Opera uses the same engine Chromium as the Chrome browser in no way means that the browser can't be developed in a way that's distinctive. And Opera has a long history of providing a distinctive and attractive browser. I think they've done it here, and will keep improving it.

Months have passed and nothing has changed, many users are complaining and we have no answers. Why does it take so long? Or they don't plan to answer our complaints?

People always complain. The vast bulk of people who come to a forum are the unhappy ones. The happy ones generally just use the browser. If you won't put energy into looking at extensions to meet some of your needs, you're just going to be unhappy and complaining. And complainers have a way of making almost everyone around them miserable. I personally think it would be a huge mistake for Opera to overload the native browser with a lot of features that only a small percentage of users really want. And many people are complaining about features they want when they haven't even bothered to look in the Chrome Store or Opera store (they're perhaps lazy and to download and try things, when in fact there is an extension that may well meet the need, or even if it doesn't, that provides something they weren't even aware of, and that they might well very much like.

dobledosis

dobledosis

Yes, people always complain, but this is not any complain, this is a complaint about something we loved and was taken away from us. The spirit of Opera, the features that made it more inclusive, practical, complete, different.

For example, you said you like Speed dial. What would you do without it? For me this feature is as important as other i said before and it's one of the main features that makes Opera different and practical, and this is one of the main reasons that made me change to Opera.

Small percentage????? I can confirm you are an Opera employee if you are sure about that "small percentage". I see a lot of people complaining about this not only in the forums.. Look at the social networks.

It's not laziness, some of us don't have time to invest in searching if there are some extensions that make Opera work like before. And whenever I want to recommend Opera what will i say? "Ohh, donwload opera, but with extension a, b, c and d because with the default browser you wont find nothing new from the others."

In this competitive world if you want to win you have to make the difference from the others and i know the common user, which are the vast majority of users, they won't use extensions. They just use what you put in front.

If you like minimalist, you could do so with the old Opera, that was another great feature, customizable.