Where is the menu bar?
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importearnest last edited by
What follows is my response to what I consider to be the bullying nature of quite a few comments. I'm sorry this post is so long, but some things need to be said.
I am new to opera and am thinking of ditching it ... in great part because of the conceit of the posts here.
foundaustin asks "Where is the menu bar?" This is obviously why their post exists.
Pesala, et al, if you don't know the answer, or don't believe the question is important, don't add comments that are unhelpful. For all you know the menu may be needed because the person only has one hand! Stop being smug.
"I am not sure why anyone needs to waste space with a menu bar. It might be useful if the Alt key pulled down the menus at the top like it does in IE, or in fullscreen Opera, but there's really nothing fundamentally wrong with pulling it down at the side instead of the top."
Your aren't being asked why you don't use the menu, nor asked why it is worth using the menu, or if the menu a waste of space. You aren't even being asked to comment on those who wish to use the menu - "I am not sure why anyone needs to waste space with a menu bar.", but "Where is the Menu?" How does the comment above help?
"The only time I use the menu is if I cannot remember the shortcut or if I am helping others locate some function. The keyboard is just fine for that — Alt + access keys, or cursor keys. On Opera 11.64, I have fixed my button menu to be the same as the top menu bar."
How is this helpful? You aren't being asked how you get around Opera, but "Where is the Menu?".
"Wasting space with a menu toolbar doesn't make it any faster. In IE you just touch the Alt key to show the menu bar." That doesn't help with the question either.
Mochikun, thanks for the reflection "But maybe it should be the users choice how to use the available space?"
"... it's the best way to find your way around new software. New users do have access to the menu bar. As soon as they touch ... See how easy it is to access the menus without any need for a menu toolbar cluttering the interface." is condescending. As is to declare "It's probably the first thing ..." I've worked with people using computers for over ten years, most elderly, and the alt key, indeed virtually all keyboard shortcuts, are incomprehensible to them.
Thank you Al-Khwarizmi for your summary of the usefulness of the classic menu. It shouldn't be necessary to post such here, but the derision, as I read it, of those who either don't know the answer to the question, or are meanly not publishing it, has made your comment necessary.
Thank you Winston12155 for getting the thread back on track.
"Setting IS the preferences. In v16 preferences are minimal but v17 sees a fair bit more added and v18 which should hit the dev channel in a matter of day should restore that even further
Until then you can run v12 in tandem with the newer versions until it has all the features you need returned" is unhelpful; and as far as I can tell, wrong. I have just downloaded Opera from the site ... and Settings isn't, in my world, preferences because it doesn't allow me to set more that the very basic "preferences". Why should I run V12? That is a clumsy way for the coders to have written the version I am using.
"The position of the menu bar is not the problem, but its organisation. The fact that the organisation is different if the menu bar is enabled in old Opera than when it is disabled is really bad design. All we really need is the option to edit the menu." isn't what has been asked. So, pointless comment!
"his is also the case in the old Opera when the menu bar is disabled. This change from "Preferences" to "Settings" was made for the convenience of users of other browsers, not for Opera users. “You can please some of the people ... ” All we really need is the option to edit the menu." This too is unhelpful. And, not true. PaleMoon uses TOOLS / OPTIONS!
"The Big "O" button is also almost pointless waste of space on tabs bar." That's not the point!
Thank you djuganight. You put my views on what has happened to this thread very well. Again it is sad you have to have written it.
"That's what not I said — it's a waste of space. It doesn't waste any time, but it doesn't save any either. There has been no menu bar on top by default in Opera for many years.
As long as the menu bar is organised correctly ... An option would be good, but ... clearly not important for most users who would never use it." Being pedantic is disingenuous. It is a waste of time in that if someone wants to see it it takes "time" to unhide it ... even if only a little time, it is a waste of time. I appreciate you didn't say "time", but it is implied and worth calling you out on.
"How about not wasting our time by searching the forum before posting?" How about you not wasting our time with your completely self indulgent views that add nothing to solving the problem? I arrived at this pitiful, non helpful meander through grumpy text by those who object to the question, rather than answering it, via a search. The question asked here is exactly my question. The comment "Were the hell are the favourites?" may well be answered elsewhere, but it is relevant here. And, who are you to talk about waste of time?!
"I'm quickly gaining the impression that Opera users are stuck in the 90's. Time to move into the new millennium, mochikun." What's it to you? You weren't asked for your views of the people who want to have a menu displayed, but "Where is the menu bar?"
"So, the newer version is more regressive instead of progressive!!!" Great comment. It is sad it had to be posted.
"regressing or progressing where is the FAVOURITES menu?????" Exactly!!!!
"Use Opera v.12. Okay." No, it's not OK. And this comment is unhelpful! How dare you!
"You don't know either correct? lololololololo But you felt that you should say something although nothing that would help me or others...." Well said!
"Incorrect. leushino does know, as any regulars here know, but you should have searched before posting. Posting Rule #1." There is no indication that leushino knows. So what if all regulars know! Maybe the person did search and this is where they ended up, you don't know. Searching is a real skill and not everyone is good at it. If leushino knows the answer, why isn't it posted as the first comment after the question? Why the need to ridicule and bully?
Finally, Pesala ... if screen space is so limited on your screen that you need to not give up space to a Menu, get a bigger one.
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zhong last edited by
Where is the "Show menu bar" on Opera 17 ?
Where is File Edit View Bookmarks Tool and Help
displayed at the top like in Opera 12.13
show in this screen shot?-
How can I get this display ?
"Alt" doesn't display this.
Thanks
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zhong last edited by
If current means that they get rid of menu bar ? So it is.
Originally posted by shlalaw1:
I really don't care if I'm current or not. I went back to v. 12 for the menu bar.
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A Former User last edited by
M$ started this crap getting rid of the long time menu bar that everything has had for the past 20 or so years just to be different and 'portable electronic toy' like (as in so called "smart phones") for all the children out there that have one embedded in their hands as they walk and drive around.
This is so void of any available function, one might as well hand no hands since there is little to access just like Win8.AFAIC, I would rather switch to Firefox than to use this void of just about all 'standard' features. :furious:
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hastie2 last edited by
I recently installed windows 8 and added opera as my default browser.
I have used opera for years and its been great , however with version 16.0 there is no toolbar as the other post state
Some people are suggesting shortcuts, but I like the menu bar with a home button and a print button, etcI will give it to the next update then if the toolbar option is not restored, I will use firefox
Shame as I like opera
:furious:
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svetivoda last edited by
I do not have a single program without menu bar. After installing app (any app) first thing to do is make menu bar visable. In case of Opera second step is place tab bar at the bottom. Third step is adding drop down menus to adress-bar (zoom %, block...pop-ups). Then turning off auto update. Everything else comes later. It is so easy to do all of that with new ChromeO - Chropera... right?
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by svetivoda:
I do not have a single program without menu bar.
You are using Windows I presume. Where is the menu bar for Windows? Oh! It doesn't have one, just a Start button that shows a menu, like Opera since about version 9 or 10.
I really feel sorry for those who simply refuse to adapt to the way things are. Change is an inevitable part of progress, and nothing stays the same for ever. I can remember when you had to dial a phone number by turning a wheel with holes in it.
Maybe the Linux version will have a menu bar, but I doubt if it will return to the Windows version. If it never returns, what are you guys going to do? At least if we can customise the menus, we can Fix the Button menu to be just like the old top menu, then there's very little to relearn.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by importearnest:
I'm sorry this post is so long, but some things need to be said.
That's why we said them.Your post being too long is your own fault. If you had made it shorter you wouldn't have needed to apologise for it.
Originally posted by importearnest:
I am new to opera and am thinking of ditching it ... in great part because of the conceit of the posts here.
:lol: It's your own conceit and bullying comments that are the problem here. Who here is going to care if you don't use Opera? Such threats are empty and childish.
Originally posted by importearnest:
Don't add comments that are unhelpful.
In what way are your comments helpful?
Originally posted by importearnest:
How does the comment above help?
Since there is no top menu bar, the comment explains how to use the side menu.
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missingno last edited by
Originally posted by Pesala:
I can remember when you had to dial a phone number by turning a wheel with holes in it.
You still can opt to do so today. I bet there are even "apps" to simulate this behaviour on current smartphones.
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svetivoda last edited by
Pecsala, Windows IS NOT an application! Someone with zilion posts should already know that.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by svetivoda:
Windows IS NOT an application!
Whatever you call it, you still manage to use it every single day without any menu at the top. Because you're used to it, you never even noticed that it doesn't have a menu. I suggest that six months from now, if you did use Opera Next, you would not even miss the menu any longer.
Malwarebytes is another application with no menu. No doubt there are others. There are other ways of working besides using menus. Have you enabled the menu in Windows Media Player yet? Anyway, Opera does have a menu, it is at the top left corner.
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svetivoda last edited by
Originally posted by Pesala:
Originally posted by svetivoda:
Windows IS NOT an application!
Whatever you call it, you still manage to use it every single day without any menu at the top. Because you're used to it, you never even noticed that it doesn't have a menu. I suggest that six months from now, if you did use Opera Next, you would not even miss the menu any longer.
Malwarebytes is another application with no menu. No doubt there are others. There are other ways of working besides using menus. Have you enabled the menu in Windows Media Player yet? Anyway, Opera does have a menu, it is at the top left corner.
Do you want screenshot? Yes, I do have menu bar in Win media player (W7 and WMP11) same as I do in every explorer windows. That's first thing to do after instaling OS. Operating system desktop is completly diferent story from any app. Maybe ChromyO is trying to become OS?
Not using Opera NEXT. It is missing everything I liked in Opera. Also do not use Malwarebytes or any anti virus couse my last virus infection was in 1995 by Michelangelo. Ironicly it was my birthday too. Reason for my "imunity" is probbalby alergia to anything that works in the background and without my approvement (does it ring a bell). It includes most of Windows services that I have disabled, not to mention updates of apps or any other scams and bulls... Of course Opera auto update always had to be disabled. Call me paranoic but it does not mean nobody follow me.
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A Former User last edited by
I do not have a single program without menu bar. After installing app (any app) first thing to do is make menu bar visable. In case of Opera second step is place tab bar at the bottom.
Glad to see someone else on the same page. Why is it these software people have to be a bunch of 'toy soldiers' and follow M$??? :furious:
I am not sure why anyone needs to waste space with a menu bar.
I can't believe you said that. What wasted space, I sure as hell don't see any. (The text is larger than usual since this setup is for a 57" HDTV, not a 24" PC monitor)
[img]http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff40/videobruce/StandardpagesetupV12_zps05cf8d18.jpg[/URL]
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by videobruce:
I can't believe you said that. What wasted space, I sure as hell don't see any.
With the menu bar enabled, the Windows title bar is also displayed. Your screen shot shows that you're wasting 45 vertical pixels out of 955, so about 4.71% of available screen space. The button menu uses no space at all when not in use, which is any time that you're reading, writing, or looking at pictures/video. The top menu and title bar are always present, whether they are being used or not. Other browsers (Firefox/IE11) at least hide it when it's not in use.
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by videobruce:
I can't believe you said that. What wasted space, I sure as hell don't see any.
There's a great amount of wasted space to the right of the menu bar which could hold useful entries. My customized menu bar consists of 12 menus, some of which are bookmarks-bar-like in nature.
Originally posted by Pesala:
With the menu bar enabled, the Windows title bar is also displayed. Your screen shot shows that you're wasting 45 vertical pixels out of 955, so about 4.71% of available screen space. The button menu uses no space at all when not in use, which is any time that you're reading, writing, or looking at pictures/video.
The tab bar is at least as useless. The title bar, on the other hand, is not.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
The tab bar is at least as useless. The title bar, on the other hand, is not.
Is it useless to see at a glance several titles so that you know which tab to select? Hovering a tab stack shows a whole lot more. The title bar is only showing one tab's title — the one that you're currently viewing. How is that useful? Don't you know which thread you're reading now? -
svetivoda last edited by
Frenzie you are so wrong about tab bar. In a matter of fact you are the first one i ever heard to complain about tab bar. Have we misunderstood something?
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by Pesala:
Is it useless to see at a glance several titles so that you know which tab to select?
You can see the same thing if you press Ctrl+Tab. By your own reasoning the tab bar is wasting space when you don't use it. As a matter of fact, just like for the menu bar, I've got a keyboard toggle for the tab bar. I often have it disabled.
Originally posted by Pesala:
The title bar is only showing one tab's title — the one that you're currently viewing. How is that useful? Don't you know which thread you're reading now?
I don't know the exact title without scrolling up. It's my handle for interacting with windows within my window manager. It lets me know whether a bookmark will have a usable title or not.
Originally posted by svetivoda:
Frenzie you are so wrong about tab bar. In a matter of fact you are the first one i ever heard to complain about tab bar. Have we misunderstood something?
As a matter of fact I think the windows panel is much more useful than the tab bar, although that's more of an implementation detail than something inherent to tab bars. For most general use I prefer Ctrl+Tab. My point is that just because Pesala thinks something is useful or useless doesn't mean everybody agrees. Opera/Presto accommodates us both,* yet Opera/Blink accommodates neither of us.
I'm well aware that these are my personal preferences. I presented them the way I did to hopefully prove a point to Pesala.
* Not exactly, for Opera 10.50+ doesn't allow hiding the menubar without also hiding the titlebar. I used to toggle the menubar on and off with a keyboard shortcut, but since 2010 it just made that horrible zombie button pop up.
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j7nj7n last edited by
Under the Windows standard theme (now something like classic/legacy theme), the title bar is left showing with Opera 10 to 12 whether the menu bar is on or not. It is useful to read the page title immediately without waiting for a tooltip to come up when hovering over the current tab. If many tabs begin with the same characters (because they are from the same site), it is helpful to see the full title. You could argue that the authors of such sites could supply more suitable, shorter titles, but with title bar showing I browse their sites without asking or waiting for them to be changed.
I have the menu bar disabled mainly because the sub-window (document) icon in the top left corner is extremely confusing if showing together with tabs instead of traditional MDI windows. With the blank sheet, it looks like a "new document" icon that could be used to open a new page (the equivalent of the "+" to the right. When in fact it is not, and accidentally double-clicking it, thinking that the first click did not register, would cause the current page, which can be a disaster.
The window/tab is down below, yet its icon is above it near the menus:
The document icon is down with the document window itself, and only along the menu bar if the window is maximized, which a tabbed window does not "appear" to be. You can see the blank sheet icon right there.
The menu compacted into a single button is hard to navigate because it has too many levels. If I am not careful enough with my mouse I can get the large cascading menu to close on me. With that many levels I also sometimes feel lost because I cannot remember functions by position. Say Help is to the right, and File is to the left. Instead they are all to the left.
If you wanted to launch Dragonfly, you would have to make 4 clicks. That is too many for a "menu-memory". Most commands in normal menus are launched with just 2 clicks. Also Dragonfly sounds like a "tool", and should be near the end, just before Help or Exit, but for some reason it is at the top under Page. This breaks the established convention of where a "tools" menu should be.
I have made a compromise and brought out the close button, the bookmarks menu, and Dragonfly as toolbar buttons, while having the menu bar disabled, and not used.
The menu and title bars existed in application software since MS DOS, and the same commands can be found in the same places within those bars, which allows to start using a new program without learning it.
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by j7nj7n:
Under the Windows standard theme (now something like classic/legacy theme), the title bar is left showing with Opera 10 to 12 whether the menu bar is on or not.
I also very much enjoy the titlebar on Linux in conjunction with a disabled menubar, but somewhat annoyingly that damned zombie button keeps resurrecting itself.
