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Opera 15/16/17/18/19/20+ - The Chrome Wars

  • I have yet to see some real usage statistics for Opera 15+ which show its penetration and because of its user agent suspect that most show it as Chrome. Neither of the traffic analysis tools I use on my own websites (analog and AWStats) identify Opera 15+. I see a slight decline in Opera Presto usage but it remains 1-2%. So at the moment it is difficult to gauge Opera Blink usage but I have a gut feeling it is low and even lower than Presto. Yes, unless they concentrate on the marketing, Opera in all forms is just going to disappear.

  • Originally posted by magellan42:

    Chrome is popular because there is a giant advertising power behind it. Every time somebody visits the Google main site and probably others with another browser, there is a banner saying "install Google Chrome", sprinkled with some marketing bull like faster, modern, etc. It may be dumb and primitive, and it may be a good browser for "1 bit" users who are unwilling or uncapable to make some mental effort when using the web (this probably desribes at least 2/3 of all users), but there are a dozen dumb and primitive browsers for similar people, and the winner is the one with the biggest marketing power. Look at those other dumb browsers, without the marketing support that Chrome gets, they are even less popular than Opera, and not because they are worse than anything else!

    Not surprised at all. Google invests 10 dollars into the Chrome's advertising and its sneak install campaign for each one dollar invested into the development of their browser as software.
    Opera's attempt to fight Google's marketing monster with stripped-down Chromium-based shell under a proven brand couldn't be considered as winning strategy. The niche of oversimplified and 100%(nearly) compatible browsers is already oversaturated.

  • Ohh, that is really great news, wok-tek. I think I'll check the source for that Otter browser and see if I can give some help to the project.

  • Thanks woj-tek for this news! Hope that 'opensource Opera' project will be successful! :hat:

  • I am not a developer, just a user of opera since ver.9. This may sound crazy, but I don't care what engine they run the browser from. The problem seems to me, is that we loyal users have become accustomed to all the useful features that Opera once had. Bring back the ability to have nested Bookmarks, (some of us like organization!). Bring back the link service so we can effortlessly share our settings between computers.

    I hope that Opera hasn't abandoned their PC based devotees. I have searched the web on smart phones and tablets, and found it a much inferior experience. I have experimented with other browsers, (Avant, Lunascape, and the name brand ones), and have found nothing that compares favorably with Opera 12.16. Previously, I had updated with every new version of Opera...

    There are some features that I, personally, cannot do without. If version 12.16 becomes too out of date to use, and the developers don't bring back the old functionality, I will reluctantly have to move on.

  • Me too, but there are actually not that many Essential Features Needed Before Upgrading.

    If you expect or hope for a complete copy of Opera 12.16 you will inevitably be disappointed. Start looking for another browser now. If you're willing to adapt, and install a few extensions, you may find it worth upgrading before Opera 12.16 becomes obsolete.

    I am still using Opera 11.64 for various reasons, but that already entails some compromises. The PDF-XChange browser plugin is badly broken in Opera 11.64 on Windows 7, so I have to use Adobe Reader plugin, or open PDF files externally. Never mind, at least I have my small tabs, and sensible pagedown/pageup behaviour.

  • Originally posted by woj-tek:

    Your answer - http://otter-browser.org/ - basically a project aiming to mimic Opera 12.x UI and functions. It's still in early stages (AFAIKR alpha 1 binaries will be released tomorrow), it's based on Qt5 with (currently) WebKit as rendering engine (author mentions Blink in the feature, possibly other?). From the looks of the screenshots it looks promissing - basically what Opera promised - an old Opera 12 UI with webkit/blink engine underneath.

    Awesome, I tried the alpha version and it actually works! It's seems very promising, but I'm worried that this guy is working alone, he need some help, or even some money.

  • I tried 15 twice and deleted both times. I have just installed 18 and it is currently pointlessly grinding away at something. I adjusted process priority so that I can still get something done using 12.16.

    The reason I use Opera is because it has been a good tool for doing a pile of work. I have been able to make versions up to 12 into whatever finely tuned tool I require to hunt for, manipulate and use information. 15 to 19 are just useless toys copying the toy-town small-minded needs of dumb Americans and their imitators.

    Get a grip Opera. This is a European product so it should be aimed at a higher intellectual level and properly marketed as a tool for doing proper work but still with the features needed for a chill day.

    Maybe you could have it install in internet-for-dummies mode and have a big button in the corner that says 'north european mode' that loads the features that have made Opera special during the last decade. Then, for those who don't require that level of sophistication, the button for changing back is marked 'internet-for-dummies' or 'north american mode' or just 'dumb-ass'.

    ==================================================
    Otter may provide a solution but I share Staross's concern about this being a small and unsupported operation. Otter could disappear quicker then it has appeared.

    I don't suppose there is any chance that Opera could get together with Otter?

  • LOL... just a little biased, eh? Let's see if I've got all this right: toy-town small-minded needs of DUMB Americans; European product ... aimed at a higher intellectual level; internet-for-dummies OR North American mode or just dumb-ass (all equal in your mind).

    Your post doesn't really deserve a response other than to say, it's been reported for abuse.

  • "Version numbers don't mean anything to anyone anymore", really? Every update, especially major ones, to other browsers, or operating systems, always have a list of what's changed, so the user can determine, if they'd like, whether to update or not. Lately, Apple's been releasing updates, that like the current Opera, has greatly pissed off many, many longtime users (like iTunes 11, & some of the Safari & OS updates have eliminated various features, or changed them, and not for the better), however, they are obviously not in danger of dropping off the map, as they have a far greater market share than Opera.

    Had I known that Opera 16 would eliminate Bookmarks, & other customization features, I'd probably not have updated, for I wrongly assumed that updates to Opera would be equivalent to upgrades.... So yes, the near total lack of communication, coupled with the varied & sometimes erroneous or conflicting information from some of the heavy posters in this forum, has only added to the frustration of many users. There's nothing worse for a company than to give their customers/users the feeling they don't give a damn about them, or their experience. And to be left in the dark, after suddenly finding features we'd become accustomed to using (not only in Opera, but with every other browser) disappear, with no explanation or communication as to what will or won't be returning, and when, is not the way to build a loyal customer base, much less retain those they already have.

    The only reason I care, at this point, is that while it's lately been prone to freezing & crashing (& then automatically re-opening, which is odd, & not so good a thing), it seems to be able to be open, with a lot of windows/tabs, without totally bogging down, a good bit longer than FF, Safari, & Chrome....

    I sure wish we could get some definite, or at least approximate (but accurate) answers to the various questions many of us have....

  • Originally posted by woj-tek:

    Opera boasted that they released 4 major versions this year

    Could you link to that?

  • @Frenzie

    • 4 major Opera releases
    • 11 Opera maintenance releases
    • 27 Opera Next releases
    • 18 Opera Developer releases

    source

  • Originally posted by woj-tek:

    Originally posted by sgunhouse:

    Actually, about Opera 10, Opera was the most customizable browser (no matter what Firefox said). It may not have had as many extensions (or even had extensions at all - I forget when we got extensions) but you could add buttons, create your own menus, gestures or keyboard shortcuts, and even modify the dialogs if they didn't fit your netbook screen or whatever.

    Your answer - http://otter-browser.org/ - basically a project aiming to mimic Opera 12.x UI and functions. It's still in early stages (AFAIKR alpha 1 binaries will be released tomorrow), it's based on Qt5 with (currently) WebKit as rendering engine (author mentions Blink in the feature, possibly other?). From the looks of the screenshots it looks promissing - basically what Opera promised - an old Opera 12 UI with webkit/blink engine underneath.

    Actually it's not going to clone Opera 12.x The developer says that he want to implement Opera-like features very selectively...
    Also, for unknown reason i can't access Otter browser's web-page from Russian ip address.

  • Now, if one guy can make a simple but working Opera-like browser with Webkit in two months, what the (bleep) the Opera developers did last year beside, ahem, polishing their magic flute?

  • Relax leushino. I am taking my lead from American management of American companies. Some of them regularly shock their European colleagues by explaining how dumbed down products and product instructions need to be for the American market.

  • Originally posted by StevenCee:

    ... ...
    The only reason I care, at this point, is that ... ... it seems to be able to be open, with a lot of windows/tabs, without totally bogging down, a good bit longer than FF, Safari, & Chrome....

    Right with you there. Opera has been the browser for handling a huge volume of work.

    What am I going to do with 11474 bookmarks??????????????????

  • Originally posted by jimf671:

    ... I am taking my lead from American management of American companies. Some of them regularly shock their European colleagues by explaining how dumbed down products and product instructions need to be for the American market.

    It's not strictly an American management style, hence the objections.

    I first saw it in practice some years ago within the products of large multi-national corporations, some of which were owned/based in Europe or Asia. It's based on a legitimate idea: if a product usage requires a certain level of technical expertise, the less expertise required to use it opens up the largest potential marketplace - because the lower the technical intelligence of humans, the greater the cumulative numbers of such folks with that or higher intelligence.

    However, there is a glaring assumption in that concept: that more lower-expertise folks will adopt such a product than high-expertise folks will avoid or abandon it, and it's by no means assured that such an assumption is valid for a given product design for a given market. Right now, this is the very issue looming before Opera and their redesign.

  • Originally posted by woj-tek:

    Originally posted by StevenCee:

    "Version numbers don't mean anything to anyone anymore", really?

    Yup!
    and thus Opera boasted that they released 4 major versions this year - ROTFL 😃

    I think you're being a bit disingenuous. The link does not say what you think it says. It merely points to the fact that Opera has made many quick releases over the past year NOT that the version numbers are important or meaningful to anyone as they once were. The truth is, version numbers hardly mean anything for any of the browsers anymore. Some folks here are trumpeting Firefox and the be-all and end-all and yet they're at version 26 and their users have been yelling for over a year now to stop following the Chrome trend in quick releases BUT that is the new reality. Opera is simply following suit and I don't see it ever returning to what it once was. And it doesn't matter what browser you finally decide to hang your hat upon... they're all doing the same thing so you'd better get used to it.

  • Actually, in these same forums and in the dev blogs over the past few years, I've seen all manner of criticism of a given Opera version number precisely because the poster disagreed that either the release merited a major rev number, or conversely, that it should have been given a more major release assignment than it received.

    Reality: nowhere is it inherently written in product design and release that a product numbering system should follow any particular scheme. Major/minor rev numbers are simply a kind of custom that has grown up within software, assuming that "major" releases get a higher base number, whereas "minor" releases get a decimal or dash number off the major number. But there is no agreed-upon rule as to what constitutes "major" or "minor" - just some conventions that seem to offer some consistency, but with no guarantees. So the major/minor system is totally subjective in the end.

    It is at least as reasonable to simply number/name emerging models or versions sequentially. Or even randomly. Nobody I've known has ever sought an automobile, food processor, or computer because it was numbered "Model 10.3, replacing model 10.2".

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