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OLD IS GOLD, we want new opera with all old stuff

  • I'm with you herrpietrus. I got fed up with the "new" Opera (pre v20) and tried using FF. It was just too damn laggy once I got it customized the way I wanted. Though I'd try V20 out and I'm not longer really angry with the new direction. If only there was a way to get the Ctrl-z functionality back I'd be super happy.

  • Opera made a decision, and that was to stop developing their own browser engine. ... That ship has sailed, there's no going back. Now, the question just is if they can rebuild enough of the functionality that was in 12.16 before all the Opera diehards just give up on Opera completely and move to other browsers.

    While indeed there's no "going back", for Opera ASA, there's no reason for users to adopt a one-way mentality about browsers. Nothing but our own preferences "lock" us in to a particular browser design, and all browsers are constantly changing. Today's wonderful new feature may be only history tomorrow as developers pursue some new concept or direction. Presto Opera had a long, marvelous "run" - but the Presto run is over.

    The simple reality is that nothing besides Opera Presto will ever work exactly like Opera Presto... but that coding mechanism is now dead for desktop browsers. It's not coming back. Users reliant on Presto features simply have to find some other path that works for them. But they have to realize, all the while, that a new browser of any brand will never be exactly like what they were used to with Old Opera. Some things will necessarily be different, both in the new browser and in how the user employs it. One can mourn the old and departed, but one can never live there.

    Myself, I've moved to Firefox 26,7,8 for main browsing plus Opera 12.14 as secondary, and I've found FF (plus a few extensions) can be made to work much like how I (not necessarily others) used Presto Opera in those key areas I need... otherwise I've adapted. Others are adopting and adapting to Blink Opera in much the same way. Still others are hanging on to Presto Opera until it now longer functions at their favorite sites. New browsers like Otter are appearing, and some users are trying to adopt those. But in every case, change will still eventually occur. FF will move to "Australis", and that may force me to again migrate to another browser, maybe back to Opera - maybe not. Otter may fall flat on its face, and users have to move on. And, like it or not, they will move on... just as we all have to move on when life tosses us an irreversible "change". The only question that remains is how we respond to the need to move on... either we turn bitter and negative or we make lemonade from the lemons, as best we can.

  • If we don't move on and refuse to adapt to an ever-changing digital landscape, we're going to be left behind using yesterday's technology and discovering that fewer and fewer websites will respond to our browser. There are young people today who have no memory of the browser wars of the 90's and could care less about integrated email clients, bookmark managers and side panels. THAT is the reality of today's world whether we like it or not. I see a bright future for Opera. My prediction is that Otter will undoubtedly flop. It hasn't the money nor the manpower to back it and in the meantime, other browsers are not standing still but ever-changing. I'm amazed at how responsive IE11 is although I can't for the life of me adapt to the metro version. Firefox will be introducing a major change in a few weeks as you've mentioned and I expect Chrome will be introducing something to counter this. Opera finally has a chance to move with the times and attract a new user base.

  • Interesting how we can put up with all kinds of "minimalist" trends that makes our browsers almost unusable for serious research but we can't digest the Metro UI.

    This kind of change for the sake of change and not for the better is completely mind boggling to me and some people that are really trying to accomplish some work with their PC's and browsers.

  • What? You can no longer do "serious research"? Really? How was "serious research" done in the 90's before the advent of tabs, side panels etc? And who says that the changes that are being introduced are for change sake alone? It may be mind-boggling to you simply because you refuse to adapt and learn new ways of doing things. I know people who can accomplish work with their pc's using the new browser (i.e. I'm one of them). I suppose it's time for you to either contine using the older version (which will eventually be useless to you), use another browser and be happy with that (i.e. Seamonkey should float your boat) OR run the new Opera browser alongside the old and learn over time to appreciate its features and how to make use of it.

  • What? You can no longer do "serious research"? Really? How was "serious research" done in the 90's before the advent of tabs, side panels etc? And who says that the changes that are being introduced are for change sake alone? ...

    Uhmm... it was harder and more time-consuming to do "serious research" in the 90's - I was there, and even before that. Those features (among others) were, to some users, very valuable additions that Opera developers added to their browser over time. Whether intentional or not, they made "serious research" easier to accomplish for those who learned to adapt their work methods to incorporate the features. The question for such users now is whether the Blink Opera feature set currently provides equivalent methodology to those key features users find are now missing... and for many "serious research" users, it does not. In the absence of genuinely equivalent features in Blink Opera, we are actually being asked to return "to the 90's"... or else told to migrate elsewhere. The failure of those who simplistically use bookmarks to grasp the impact of the absence of a good bookmarks manager and full bookmarks integration upon users who heavily rely on those features is but a microcosm of what is happening with other features (such as sidebars, notes, etc) that some users had come to rely heavily upon.

    Although some of that performance which is now missing can be obtained from 3rd-party extensions, those implementations in most cases fall short of the integrated performance of native feature sets in the browser itself. Extension stability and functionality are unpredictable whenever Opera (or any other browser) issues an update, something occurring more often now than in bygone years. The security implications of a user having to cobble together and maintain an array of extensions from 3rd parties is demonstrably worse than what exists by using just a browser fully developed by experienced and competent designers.

    While Opera is free to do whatever it wants with its browser designs, and while users must learn to somehow live in the real world thus created, those users themselves can logically be the only ultimate judges of what they "need", of what impacts they are experiencing if their "needed" previous features are missing, and the effectiveness of other imputed "work-around" suggestions as substitutes. Right now, many of those users are trying to describe where Blink Opera falls short.

  • Harder to do serious work? Meh... not necessarily. When I was working on my Master's I didn't have the luxury of the internet but I made do with the tools that were available to me and I didn't complain. The whining I see here along with the constant panning of the new browser is frankly bogus. If they don't like the new browser, then all they need to do is use the former Presto version. I disagree that "all they are trying to do is describe where Blink falls short." If that were all that they were trying to do, they would make their suggestions over in the appropriate folder for that (Suggestions). The number of posts we read here describing the new browser as dumbed-down and useless for "serious" work and so-called "power users" is simply ridiculous. They make about as much sense as the guy who complained that he lost all of his important email when Opera closed MyOpera. Admittedly he hadn't checked on this "important" email in two months (really?) but nevertheless he could still find something over which to complain.

    The solution is simple:

    • use Opera Presto. Since THIS is the browser you must have for serious work... USE IT. It's still workable even though it might have issues opening Facebook and Yahoo email (neither of which should prevent you from doing your serious work).

    • use a different browser. I have four browsers on my computer and they seem to play well together. What exactly is the problem?

    • learn to adapt.

  • ... The whining I see here along with the constant panning of the new browser is frankly bogus. ... I disagree that "all they are trying to do is describe where Blink falls short." If that were all that they were trying to do, they would make their suggestions over in the appropriate folder for that (Suggestions). The number of posts we read here describing the new browser as dumbed-down and useless for "serious" work and so-called "power users" is simply ridiculous. ...>

    I'm not inside the minds of those who post here about problems with the new Opera, so I can't actually know in detail what motivates each of them... other than noting the obvious reality that they're all unhappy about the new browser in some way or another. I can only know my own mind; and from my own opinions and perspectives, I can identify with the reality of many of the complaints being raised by others, though not necessarily the terms some may use to express them, nor the desperation being implied about options.

    Readers here are frequently told there are only a few users who "might" actually "need" the missing features and configurability, and thus those users' complaints are deemed trivial. Yet, at the same time, we're told that the number of posts complaining about them is "simply ridiculous". Well, the numbers can't be true both ways.

    What has actually emerged is a misleading paradigm wherein the complaints of those who find Blink Opera to be deficient in some way compared with Presto Opera and raise specific examples are continually marginalized by others as only representing minor opinions of just a "few", "geeks", or those "unable to adapt". Yet as other Blink Opera users have continued to post those same objections when they themselves discover them, their opinions are marginalized and dismissed as merely coming from repetitive "whiners" and "complainers". Net result: outright dismissal of complaints, especially recurring complaints. Some of this has been brought on by posters who have gone far overboard in negativity and attack, rather than patiently explaining and requesting dialogue on the merits of their complaints. Regardless, to my observation, the problematic paradigm has taken hold here... though I certainly hope it hasn't with Opera's developers, else it will blind them to the real need for certain areas of improvement.

    As the last 9 months have unfolded, and much the same complaints continue to emerge from those trying Blink Opera for the first time, I believe reasonable folks would come to recognize the possibility that maybe, just maybe, those complaining are raising valid points in those repeating areas, and that they indeed represent more than just a trivial component of the user universe. I believe many such users post complaints here because the natural inclination is to post in a software forum created to deal with user problems, and to those users, the loss of key features seems to them like a real user problem. On the other hand, if Opera ASA truly wants the user complaints to be posted in the "Suggestions" forum, then it needs to clearly retitle that forum to something like "Suggestions and Complaints"... otherwise, it's not necessarily intuitive for users to post their complaints there instead of here.

  • leushino, just wondering... how much you are getting paid by Opera for answering every single complaint on this forum? Or you just really don't have anything better to do with your life?

  • @awzx: boatloads of money! I just returned from the pier and had to rent another U-Haul truck due to the gold bars Opera are now sending my way. Oh... and you're right. I have no life outside of slapping the wrists of cry babies. I never plan our Hawaiian vacations but leave that to my wife. I would tell you about my day so far (I've spent about an hour on the internet since 6:30 a.m. this morning) but you would refuse to believe my report. In your view I have no life. 😉 If that helps you by labeling me then by all means.

  • Hey, I'll label you no problem! Your a Troll! Your the "cry baby" leushino. Even if a user states they like Opera but miss something, you feel the need to jump on them. You should just make a template telling people to learn to adapt, stick with 12.16, go to Seamonkey ,on and on. That would save you some time. You hate it when anyone isn't totally happy with the new Opera. It dives you crazy doesn't it!! We see it does. Well rest assured, we have read all your posts and because your so helpful, your the only one taking you seriously now Troll.

    @ Blackbird71

    Best post ever man!!! Keep up the good work!!!

    @ awzx

    He has nothing better to do I bet.

  • blackbird71

    an excellent synopsis. where there’s smoke there’s fire. hopefully the firemen are working on it (and judging from the progression from 15 to 20 they are, but there's still a lot of work to be done). now note that when i said "there's still a lot of work to be done", i will again be labelled a troll and dismissed and occasionally ridiculed (apparently b/c 20 is perfect, as was 18 b/f it). there are opera nazis here that dislike creative criticism. i've been called a troll for genuinely asking if presto will be opensourced (it was my first post, who new that this would evoke such hatred? not i). i suggested a feature that `the unmentionable browser' has that i thought would benefit opera. oops. that's not allowed you vial troll. lol. this is not a browser war between companies, we are witnessing opera supporters turning on themselves.

  • +1 biggerabalone

  • No fire, Guys. There's smoke but only because a few diehards are fanning it and have been doing so for months now. Opera 20 is an awesome browser. Seriously, you should learn to use it and adapt your browsing habits to it instead of insist that it conform to your ideas... especially non-paying ideas.

  • Who, who's been "fanning" it for months? Not me. Not biggerabalone. Who's insisting? Tell us! What, we can't mention the things we'd like to see? The things we miss. Yea Opera 20 is awesome, but we can't say what we'd like to see in it.

    leushino said:
    "Seriously, you should learn to use it and adapt your browsing habits to it instead of insist that it conform to your ideas... especially non-paying ideas."

    Are you kidding me?? Really!!!I can probably use it better than you! You are so condescending to us all. Your sad man. Really sad. Someday, somewhere on some other forum, maybe people will take you seriously again. Not here!

    oh yea, and stop trolling the new people, it's not nice so knock it off!!!

  • Back topic. Following features have to be reimplemented ASAP:

    1. Bookmarks as in Opera 12.x

    2. stacked tabs / tab groups

    3. editable keyboard short cuts

    4. an empty new tab without all the crap (stash, discover, search bar, ...)

  • Let us stop dreaming. The good Opera days are over.

    They simply do not care about us.

  • They care about you. Bear in mind that they listened to the complaint regarding the lack of bookmarks are gave us the QAB in spite of the findings of the survey to the contrary. What is not being accepted, however, is that the new browser is not exactly like the Presto version and never will be. I think if you run both side by side and watch the how the new Opera develops over time, you will ultimately be pleased with it. And by running both you can become more familiar with the newer version and learn how to adapt to the changes.

  • In rereading my reply above I'm amazed at the spelling and grammatical errors. Chalk it up to early morning and lack of coffee.

  • Sorry. Looks like you'll have to make do with Palemoon and various addons. Opera is dead and it probably won't come back. The fact that they threw everything out the window suggests Google implanted a trojan horse agent like Nokia's Elop.