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From Opera 12 to 20...a giant leap back for mankind

  • Hello, I'm wondering if they dropped the great and vanguard engine and implemented webkit. Is it true? Opera 20 looks too much like Chrome and has the same developers console (good night dragonfly).

    I've just upgraded to 20 because Opera 12 had a few annoying bugs (mainly in the mails) but it kept telling me there wasn't a newer version. So I found 20 looking for updates on Opera's website and I gave it a try. I like the fact the they splitted the browser and the mails because with all the years I've been using it, it was really heavy. But the browser gives me that feeling... I miss all the cool stuff, all the things that the others browsers have copied from Opera.

  • And so...
    I came here willing to write all the stuff which I want back in my beloved Opera. The bookmarks (The "Stash" is OK, but this is not alternative and I just can't put them all in the bookmark bar), the block content in the menu, the quick download, the useful settings, etc.... Then I sow this
    "I miss all the cool stuff, all the things that the others browsers have copied from Opera." and I'm agree. Opera 20 is a good step in the right direction, but this is not Opera now.

  • Moderator edit: Abuse removed. Further abuse may lead to a ban.

  • @withme

    Are all Polish people so ignorant and rude?

    Can you write the code to create a fast and secure cross-platform browser?

  • they are kidding me, you can't even view a full stupid address on the address bar, this browser is being made by a bunch of retarded monkeys.

    While I'm no fan of the new ChrOpera, and have - in fact - been one of it's more vocal detractors, this and your created topic are way over the line. There's a way to complain about something without being rude.

  • You are not the Opera user of old. You don't want a "geek-oriented" browser, and that's O.K. Ignoring that practically every other browser in existence is NOT a geek-oriented browser, and that Opera moved from a market that it had fairly cornered to one that is completely dominated by three major consumer-oriented browsers, please don't minimize those of us who

    Well... I've been using Opera since 1999 so I'm not sure exactly who these Opera users of Old are. Perhaps you can shed some light on that. πŸ˜‰

    Opera's cornering of 3% is little to blow trumpets about. Now here's a fact for you: Opera Presto is dead. The team that developed it is largely gone or been re-assigned. Opera is developing in a new direction whether you like it or not. You can make lists of all the missing features you like until you've exhausted your store of them but in the end it won't matter one iota. It's a new team developing a new browser and it's not finished yet. So... until it is finished why not continue to use the older version and watch the development of the new browser WITHOUT the backbiting... without the snide remarks... without the dire predictions?

  • With XP expiring, I finally got a new computer with Win 8.1 and Opera 20. I have used Opera for many years (I paid for my first version)but I am certainly no geek, so I never did a lot of messing with Opera. However, I certainly miss some of the features from past versions, especially the wand, the email client (not perfect, but very convenient), the panels which made access to bookmarks easy - in fact, just Opera's handling of bookmarks made Opera superior to other browsers,in my opinion - now I don't seem to be able to find them. I'm not even able to uninstall an extension I no longer want! I suggest these things (possibly excepting the email client) are items that could be restored without too trouble.
    I think I'll just try Mozilla and await future versions of Opera.

  • @pesala [deleted]

    yes, I can.

  • So I'm not imagining things? Is there really no real bookmarks function in Opera 20? And the greyed out Bookmark Importer menu selection really doesn't exist? That's a BIG disappointment for this long-time Opera user. Speed Dial is hardly a substitute for a bookmarks/favorites function. I still have the speed, and I still have the resiliency of the tabs (only browser that RELIABLY restores bookmarks after a crash or shutdown in my experience), but what's a browser without a bookmarking feature? My sense is that I'm running beta software (you EXPECT unimplimented features in Beta software). SIGH

  • Is there really no real bookmarks function in Opera 20? And the greyed out Bookmark Importer menu selection really doesn't exist?

    It's my understanding that you have to go into the settings to enable the quick access bar (which is a sort-of replacement for bookmarks, but not as intuitive). Mind you, I'm speaking from what I've read others post, not personal experience. I still can't bring myself to install it.

    what's a browser without a bookmarking feature? My sense is that I'm running beta software (you EXPECT unimplimented features in Beta software). SIGH

    From what I read on the old forums, it seems that their usage data from the Presto-based Opera (meaning, just those who chose to submit usage data), showed that virtually no one used bookmarks. At all.
    Obviously they failed to take into account the fact that most of their users are power users/geeks who do not submit usage data because of privacy concerns, security concerns or otherwise. They had to scramble to implement even the most basic, rudimentary system, and it still took them two versions before it was even accessible (albeit through a convoluted system of enabling features).

  • @pesala
    yes, I can.

    Forum Rule #6: Don't write in all-caps, and leave swearing, rudeness and flaming at the door.

    So while rudeness may be your thing, it's not this forum's "thing". Please refrain from it.

  • @pesala
    yes, I can.

    You need to have your potty mouth cleaned out with soap and water. It's very sad that you can't express yourself civilly.

  • @pesala
    yes, I can.

    You need to have your potty mouth cleaned out with soap and water. It's very sad that you can't express yourself civilly.

    agreed. however he was responding to a racist attack directed against him. yet the racist wasn't called out for it, only the victims response.

  • @biggerabalone

    There was no racist attack. The comment was intended to rouse some sense of moral shame in him. People can do good or evil due to pride in their nationality.

  • Don't hold back your frustrations. You have every right to express your feeling about this. I for one have been more than loyal to this company and their browser and without warning they pull the plug on a very stable business venture that kept me going for a very long time. I pushed their browser on thousands of clients and one day the workload becomes so much of a burden that no one can get any work done because of complaints regarding the old browser because it needs to be updated for future compatibility concerns and the new version is the most disgraceful excuse of a browser.

    I am not a whiner, I am a realist and pretty good judge of a good browser. We are the users who made their business worthwhile, so we are the ones that they should focus on when trying to implement something. Opera is using the chromium platform and that in itself is quite the problem. A 16GB computer running many tabs and getting out of memory messages? Yeah ok. We all know their are ways around it but the fact remains, Operas vision is still stuck inside someone's head. It has not made it to a desktop. This entire platform is a wasted effort based on the results thus far, and if they want to continue to show their arrogance and ignore the users that made it possible for their browser of yesteryear to be widely acclaimed, then we can stop using anything new they have to offer. Which is basically nothing.

    Facts are facts and the people at Opera are toying with 3 or 4 different versions for Windows when they should put their heads together and actually work on one browser version and put out something useful to the user. Most of us can care less what new features are being revealed in NEXT and Developer is essentially doing the same. Seems very redundant. They ignore the requests to bring back very important features from the old User Interface and they expect you to embrace change and adapt. How arrogant. If all of the users of version 12 have to continue using version 12 to get any work done, it really says alot. I for one have to use version 12 because every time I try to use version 20, I run into so many brick walls because of the lack of functionality. It is truly a dysfunctional browser at the moment.

    I am confident that opera can make this a good browser but they are only face-lifting chrome. It seem like they have taken this challenge to one up Google Chrome or something. They want to re-invent the wheel when they already had one of the best browsers out there. If they are willing to release a browser that is dysfunctional, then they are pretty foolish. You don't release a new browser and expect everyone to follow by upgrading if it is a downgrade. One step forward, and 3 steps back. Almost a year has passed since the inception of the new Opera and still no simple method to import bookmarks. No method to do anything. This is pure arrogance. 1 year and so many upgrades later and I cannot find one good reason to embrace anything on the new Opera. It really stinks. They more or less are telling everyone they do not care about us. So let them continue to waste valuable resources and get nothing done. I was always able to export my bookmarks from Opera 12 as HTML and then import them into chrome. Pretty sad when they are not even capable of giving us a simple method to import bookmarks. You know what it looks like? Maybe the one who was responsible for the development and support of the original Opera left. Maybe they have to go a different direction because they currently have some new employees that are all about Chromium. And maybe there is another Agenda that will help them in more ways than help us. It is definitely a selfish move. Because nobody who uses Opera 12 can say with any truthfulness, that any of the new Opera is even close to what they once had.

    Good luck to Opera and thanks for........ pretty much nothing

  • It seems like the apologists for Opera 20 and where Opera is supposedly "going" continue to say the same. things. "Quit whining. Opera 12 is dead. You can't program, so shut up." The reality of the problem, because this is a real problem for many of us, isn't that we're inept. It's that the new browser is inept.

    I'm grateful for posts made by tteksystems that articulate a little better why customer feedback is needed and should be sought after by the current Opera team. Please don't be side-tracked by silly squabbles involving those who may express negative opinions too harshly or with colorful language.

    I started this thread to express my tremendous disappointment in the lack of nearly everything that made Opera what it was pre-"New Opera", and to encourage others to do the same. If my "whining" is bothersome to you, please, go make your own thread about how pioneering and cutting-edge the "New Opera" is. It may make /you/ feel better. I am attempting this outlet because /I/ don't feel well about the current state of the Opera browser.

  • Quit whining. πŸ˜‰ hey, I don't want to disappoint you.

    Seriously, either continue to use the old Presto version or go get another browser. But stop your infernal whining. The browser is still being developed. Why can't you grasp that simple fact?

  • Those expressing negative opinions too harshly in colourful language are idiots who are not worth listening to. They could not program their way out of a paper bag.

    How do you react when others are overly critical about your efforts to create something? Do you work better with encouragement or constant nagging and bullying?

    It's basic psychology. If you really want to help improve any software product by providing "feedback" leave all of the rudeness and flaming aside. Just provide constructive criticism.

    Keep it brief too: nobody is going to even bother reading properly a rant of 700 words like that by tteksystems. Condense the main points into a bullet list:

    β€’ Compatibility with web sites is vital. The new version is doing a great job there, except ... provide link to two or three broken sites
    β€’ The Bookmarks Bar is OK as far as it goes, but we need to be able to import bookmarks from other browsers and export them as HTML. Searching, tags, or nicknames would be nice to if possible.
    β€’ The Bookmarks Bar takes up space when not in use. Give us a shortcut to toggle it.
    β€’ The most important feature is (add your highest priority here) is being able to customise mouse and keyboard shortcuts.

    If users could manage to do that without the insults, hyperbole, and melodrama, these forums might become a place where the developers would look for feedback. As it is, they probably don't bother.

    Thread titles, especially, are important. Flame-bait titles like this current thread are just inviting trouble. Even a slight change to the tone can make a big difference. Cut the sarcasm completely:

    From Opera 12 to 20 β€” A Step Too Far for Me

    1. I'll try to have shorter posts for those who can't handle reading 700+ words. Are thoughts over 700 words not worth reading? (The forum should adopt that as a rule if it's a problem.)

    2. My title is absolutely not sarcastic. Not sure how it is interpreted as such. This is not a flaming thread whatsoever, but I can see how it is aggravating (as shown by a few users) for anyone not only acceptive but advocating the omission of "Old Opera" functionality.

    3. I, for one, and most all others here are not insulting anyone. Don't use blanket statements for those who come here express their opinion. I know you'd like to put all of us malcontents into a group but that's clearly unfair.

    4. I'm very happy to be reminded that Opera 20 is still being developed. This only means that I'd like to share my opinion with even more vigor to ensure functionality isn't abandoned, but instead that it will be worked on because of user interest. If no one expresses this opinion, then the functionality could very well be abandoned.

    5. I have flamed no one. In fact, I am now being told that Opera 20 is "A Step Too Far for Me", implying my inadequacy. I'm sorry it's come to that. I didn't mean to offend you, pesala.

    6. Finally, the voicing of my opinion has a universally larger potential for change than those who only dictate to others to "stop whining". Talk about wasted breath, unnecessary posts, and a very strong indicator of the dictatorial nature of those posters.

  • My title is absolutely not sarcastic.

    Yeah! Right, and Neil Amstrong didn't actually land on the moon β€” it was all filmed in a studio.

    "A Step Too Far for Me", implying my inadequacy.

    What it implies is not inadequacy, but humility.

    β€œHey guys, I realise that you have to rebuild all of the old features from scratch in the New Opera version, but it's not yet good enough for me to use yet. Please keep add as many features as you can, then I will try to get used to it, and may grow to like it.”

    That's a whole lot better than insulting comments like tteksystems made, which you think articulated the problem well: "This is pure arrogance. 1 year and so many upgrades later and I cannot find one good reason to embrace anything on the new Opera. It really stinks."

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