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Where are the bookmarks in Opera 18?

  • Originally posted by scratchspace:

    Originally posted by blackbird71:

    I've observed that one of the common elements of quite a number of negative initial postings about Opera's bookmarks situation is that users who first fire up the new Opera are unable to locate or figure out its 'bookmarking' functionality. . . .

    Opera seriously needs to get a team working ASAP on a coherent, instantly-accessible instruction/helps/how-to database for new users, broken out by version number . . .

    Yes, a FAQ/guide of some sort is clearly needed. Unfortunately, the presence of such a FAQ would represent only a speed bump to the fraudulent/trolling "Where are the bookmarks?! I'm shocked! Good riddance, Opera!" posters (e.g., the OP here) who appear with some regularity on this forum.

    Definitely agree that the OP post screams "fraudulent." Especially the whiny and attraction attention "Opera is a lost cause." The post just doesn't smell right.

    I've also seen too many posts by so-called decision makers telling us they're considering Opera for their company, blah, blah blah. Yeah right.:rolleyes:

    Opera could have definitely done a better job documenting the QAB. And it should have been called what it is: bookmark bar. And they should have supplied an easy way to import bookmarks from other browsers, including Presto. The whole point of making it easy to import from others browsers is to get people to easily convert to your browser. Aren't they supposed to try for more business?

  • Originally posted by BernG:

    Originally posted by scratchspace:

    Originally posted by blackbird71:

    I've observed that one of the common elements of quite a number of negative initial postings about Opera's bookmarks situation is that users who first fire up the new Opera are unable to locate or figure out its 'bookmarking' functionality. . . .

    Opera seriously needs to get a team working ASAP on a coherent, instantly-accessible instruction/helps/how-to database for new users, broken out by version number . . .

    Yes, a FAQ/guide of some sort is clearly needed. Unfortunately, the presence of such a FAQ would represent only a speed bump to the fraudulent/trolling "Where are the bookmarks?! I'm shocked! Good riddance, Opera!" posters (e.g., the OP here) who appear with some regularity on this forum.

    Definitely agree that the OP post screams "fraudulent." Especially the whiny and attraction attention "Opera is a lost cause." The post just doesn't smell right.

    I've also seen too many posts by so-called decision makers telling us they're considering Opera for their company, blah, blah blah. Yeah right.:rolleyes:

    But why are these posters doing this? I think one reason is that these posters miss what Opera has lost and they are trying to create as much leverage as they can to get it back. They figure that a simple polite post will be ignored but if they seem more important and angry, the powers that be are more likely to listen to them. I think another reason is that they are simply enraged at the frustration they feel over what they see as dumb decisions made by management. In any case letting these comments stand unanswered is more likely to give management a nudge toward improving Opera. Undercutting these comments doesn't do anybody any good.

  • It is obvious in which Opera thinks that it need to concentrate on customers who can forget that a couple of internet pages imporant of speed face items.

  • Originally posted by blackbird71:

    Opera seriously needs to get a team working ASAP on a coherent, instantly-accessible instruction/helps/how-to database for new users

    Agreed. Good and comprehensive documentation is even more important with the new version than it was with previous versions. The lack of any search results for "Bookmarks" in help is a serious oversight.

    Originally posted by blackbird71:

    Is it any surprise many frustrated users come here and complain?

    No, but it is surprising that someone trained in IT and responsible for installing software for other users would be so useless at finding the relevant information.

    Originally posted by BernG:

    it should have been called what it is: bookmark bar.

    It has already changed back to being called the "Bookmarks bar" in Opera 19.

    Originally posted by bosco30:

    Undercutting these comments doesn't do anybody any good.

    I disagree. The OP may never return to see the comments, but anyone reading the thread can soon see how futile it is to rant and complain, especially when one has one's facts wrong.

    If the OP had politely asked, “Where are the Bookmarks in Opera 18?” we could have told him, and the problem would have been resolved. Even if he decided he really needs an organiser and a menu, not just a toolbar, he would have learnt that they are working on it, and all that frustration would have been avoided right from the start.

  • Originally posted by Pesala:

    Originally posted by blackbird71:

    Opera seriously needs to get a team working ASAP on a coherent, instantly-accessible instruction/helps/how-to database for new users

    Agreed. Good and comprehensive documentation is even more important with the new version than it was with previous versions. The lack of any search results for "Bookmarks" in help is a serious oversight.

    I have come to the conclusion that this is no oversight. It's a logical symptom when they didn't intend to create a functional desktop browser in the first place. The intention was just to ditch Presto and replace it with a parachute Trojan to leave the impression that they still care about the desktop section, whereas in reality it's just a pale extension of the mobile browser. All the signs are in place that there is no development on the desktop browser specifically and this is by design. This is how all the actions make sense, there are no mistakes and oversights, it's going as planned.

  • Originally posted by Pesala:

    Originally posted by alderdale:

    Keep up the good work of embarrassing yourself

    :lol: How did you get a job in IT?

    You should have searched the forum or asked first before embarrassing yourself.

    Instead of importing 4,000 bookmarks to Speed Dial, import them to the Quick Access Bar (aka Bookmarks Bar). That's still rather a lot of bookmarks for the QAB to handle, but as long as they are well organised into folders and subfolders it should work well enough. I have about 1,200 bookmarks in 86 folders/subfolders.

    For "Sessions" the Speed Dial is fine. Stack a number of speed dials on top of each other to create a Speed Dial folder. Right-click on the folder to open them all at once.

    It's not as powerful as sessions were in earlier versions of Opera, but it is a viable solution to open a number of bookmarks at once. Right-click on a folder to open all bookmarks in a folder is another method.

    A Bookmarks Organiser or import/export to other programs is not implemented yet, but D&D on the Quick Access Bar is OK for organising the odd few bookmarks. Right-click and sort alphabetically also helps a lot.

    In many businesses these days ordinary employees are used to test software that is intended as a tool for non technical end user functionality. Browsers fall into that category. I sense that Alderdale is not actually a member of the IT Department (that probably explains why the OP does not actually state that they are a member of the IT Department). The person is likely to be a junior member of staff who belongs to a large group of employees who make extensive use of a web browser in their day to day activity. If I am correct, the investigation that Alderdale conducts will be non technical and concerned more with functionality and ease of use. If Alderdale finds a suitable browser that meets the brief given then a trial will be rolled out to the group for more extensive user testing. The OP has clearly decided already that Opera 18 does not meet the functionality and ease of use requirements of the group. IT Staff are usually accustomed to having to deal with implementation frustrations and finding workarounds and so adopt a more professional approach to their work. Non-technical junior staff find such investigative work confusing and very stressful and perhaps this is why frustration has boiled over into a degree of posting hostility. Obviously my views are an untested hypothesis but I have come across this type of activity many times in my career and the OP displays all of the usual stress symptoms.

    I have chosen to mention this on this Forum in the hope all who contribute to the discussions will adopt a more tolerant and helpful approach.

  • Originally posted by yakyelnats:

    It is clear that Opera feels that it should concentrate on users who need no more that a couple of pages worth of Speed Dial entries - i.e. about 24 icons.¹ Any more than that becomes a pain to handle. I wonder how large a market share that number represents?

    I have 28 on one page including 2 folders with 4 in each, with room for more. According to their user survey of 100,000 users, 90% of users didn't add any bookmarks. I reckon that's sufficient reason not to prioritise bookmarks for the initial release of the browser, though any power user such as those who browse these forums, will obviously use lots of bookmarks.

    ¹ Yes, once you have more than about 24 speed dials, or more than one page, it becomes slow dial.

  • Originally posted by Pesala:

    Originally posted by yakyelnats:

    It is clear that Opera feels that it should concentrate on users who need no more that a couple of pages worth of Speed Dial entries - i.e. about 24 icons.¹ Any more than that becomes a pain to handle. I wonder how large a market share that number represents?

    I have 28 on one page including 2 folders with 4 in each, with room for more. According to their user survey of 100,000 users, 90% of users didn't add any bookmarks. I reckon that's sufficient reason not to prioritise bookmarks for the initial release of the browser, though any power user such as those who browse these forums, will obviously use lots of bookmarks.

    ¹ Yes, once you have more than about 24 speed dials, or more than one page, it becomes slow dial.

    Thanks Pesala; that is very useful information and I accept that it is sensible to build products on the basis of known facts such as those. My own specialist requirements are far from typical and can see why I am unlikely to see my requirements being met :>(

  • Originally posted by scratchspace:

    Originally posted by yakyelnats:

    I sense that Alderdale is not actually a member of the IT Department

    I sense that too.

    Originally posted by yakyelnats:

    Non-technical junior staff find such investigative work confusing and very stressful and perhaps this is why frustration has boiled over into a degree of posting hostility.

    Or, perhaps he's a troll. That would be my bet.

    Hi scratchspace,

    I am adopting a neutral attitude on this thread because I can find no evidence to support the person being a troll - two postings only as far as I can see. Moreover, they (I do not say he because the gender is not known) have not responded since their second comment. In my experience trolls continue to troll and usually come back with a vengeance. I sense we will never know so, for now, I am giving them the benefit of the doubt.

  • Hi scratchspace, and thank you for your further response. It seems that we have a difference of opinion over the nature of a troll. There are many definitions of a troll but I prefer the following:-

    "...a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

    In my opinion, the OP's comments do not wholly match this definition - the OP has certainly not disrupted normal on-topic discussion because it is alive and well!. You clearly disagree with me and I sense that perhaps it is best that we drop the matter and move on.

    I am grateful for taking time to respond to this contentious issue.

  • I don't see it as a contentious issue. It's clear (at least to me having been reading the forum for years now) that the OP was doing little more than venting his frustrations (a type of trolling) rather than seeking a solution.

  • Originally posted by scratchspace:

    Originally posted by leushino:

    It's clear . . . that the OP was doing little more than venting his frustrations (a type of trolling) . . .

    I've said I wouldn't continue to debate the matter of the OP's authenticity/trolli-ness, and I won't. But, since "venting [of] frustrations" has been a major element of many of this forum's threads for months now, I do want to say that in my view the venting of frustrations, per se, should not be regarded as a form of trolling. On the other hand, venting one's frustrations by making posts a significant part of whose purpose is to be provocative and adopting a false persona designed to enhance that provocative effect certainly is trolling.

    And you're certainly entitled to your opinion regarding trolling (with which I respectfully disagree) but that, to me, is not the real issue here. The OP did not want a solution which was provided by Pesala and later re-iterated by me. He failed to read Pesala's work-around or if he did, he never stuck around to indicate such but simply vanished.

  • Originally posted by scratchspace:

    Originally posted by leushino:

    It's clear . . . that the OP was doing little more than venting his frustrations (a type of trolling) . . .

    ...the venting of frustrations, per se, should not be regarded as a form of trolling. On the other hand, venting one's frustrations by making posts a significant part of whose purpose is to be provocative and adopting a false persona designed to enhance that provocative effect certainly is trolling.

    And I would go so far as to simplify that by saying that anyone posting under a false persona (while also posting under other personas) IS a troll, almost by definition because his efforts are disruptive since they're not legitimately made. That said, however, we're all just guessing about the nature of the poster in this case (and often in other similar cases)... and, truly, at this level of our lack of direct knowledge, each of our guesses is as valid as anyone else's. Personally, I prefer the "innocent-until-proven-guilty" approach. In any case, enough electrons have been inconvenienced in this discussion's focus... so for me, it's back to my work!

  • Guys just wait for and get extensions, They will do what you want. This is a great new version, I love it. Opera FTW..

    You all sound like my grandma, looking for that page you had bookmarked and she doesn't even have the right browser opened.

    Just learn to use the browser and you will love it. They remove and change stuff to make it faster, which it is faster.

    Very good version, can't wait for many extensions compaitible for new version and updates on this version..

    Thanks Opera!

    Edit: I just use the stash tab which is amazing. Also just saw someone say about the speed dial combine. Also you can search your speed dial.
    If you can't figure out how to save and get back to a page without the word "bookmark" then you have problems.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't have the bookmarks there. It is the first thing I noticed being gone along with sessions but there are other ways.

  • Originally posted by soraben:

    I'm not saying they shouldn't have the bookmarks there. It is the first thing I noticed being gone along with sessions but there are other ways.

    There are other ways, yes, such as real browsers http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1773722

  • Well I just found the extensions "Tabhamster" and "Browse++"

    And the stash is really good. Just use those 3 things and you will be fine. But I don't import and export bookmarks between browsers so I wouldn't have those problems..

    I don't know why they would remove the bookmarks. It doesn't make much sense but I won't be using another browser because I love opera.

    And the Stash tab needs some work. They need to make it so you can move each stashed item up or down at least. Also I would add the stash the ability to open all. Also when the stash is the only thing opened you can't click the little X on the tab and close it back to speed dial.. that annoys me.

  • Originally posted by ersi:

    Originally posted by soraben:

    I'm not saying they shouldn't have the bookmarks there. It is the first thing I noticed being gone along with sessions but there are other ways.

    There are other ways, yes, such as real browsers http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1773722

    Wow ersi that info is great. I have now installed and tried both SeaMonkey and Firefox and you are quite correct; their Bookmarks and Sessions are excellent and migrating html links from other browsers is a dream. I am now migrating my Opera Sessions. It would be great if a future version of Opera could become as good as those. In the meantime I have adopted Firefox version 25 primarily because I do not need the email client built into SeaMonkey .

    Many thanks for your helpful response.

  • Originally posted by soraben:

    Guys just wait for and get extensions, They will do what you want. This is a great new version, I love it. Opera FTW..

    I'm with you and many others are as well. The more I use Opera 18, the more I love it. This browser just keeps getting better and better. It is now my default having uninstalled FF and pushed Chrome off to a side track.

  • Originally posted by soraben:

    Guys just wait for and get extensions, They will do what you want. This is a great new version, I love it. Opera FTW..

    I too am looking forward to having extensions for Bookmarks and Sessions. I have been given encouraging news that they will be available soon. I am now getting excited.

  • Originally posted by Pesala:

    Instead of importing 4,000 bookmarks to Speed Dial, import them to the Quick Access Bar (aka Bookmarks Bar). That's still rather a lot of bookmarks for the QAB to handle, but as long as they are well organised into folders and subfolders it should work well enough. I have about 1,200 bookmarks in 86 folders/subfolders.

    How do you import hundreds of bookmarks into QAB?

    I can only add one bookmark or one folder at a time to QAB.
    I don't see any option to *import* bookmarks.

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