Where are the bookmarks in Opera 18?
-
frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by Krake:
My comment was about generally killing user friendly formats to make it harder to access, review, modify or delete default content.
Yet it can't be that much harder to write some malware that (ab)uses SQLite to change something or other about your bookmarks than to write some that messes with your plain-text bookmarks. In both cases you have to figure out the data format and you have to write a program to manipulate it. Heck, it might actually be simpler to do it with SQLite because a library that does all the information getting and setting for you will already be available on the system, while with plain-text you potentially might have to reverse engineer some stuff the program in question does. I wouldn't be surprised if SQLite puts malware authors closer to your data or at the very least no further, while it only makes things less accessible to the user.
And as for the general trend, that's very true. At some point in the past few years Skype also switched from plain-text logs to either SQLite or something similar. I don't care that it's proprietary or whatever, but that's making me reconsider my use of the program. I want to search my logs with whatever tool I freaking want, including 50 years from now when I barely even remember what Skype the proprietary binary was. Plain text is for the ages and super convenient.
-
Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Originally posted by Krake:
My comment was about generally killing user friendly formats to make it harder to access, review, modify or delete default content.
Yet it can't be that much harder to write some malware that (ab)uses SQLite to change something or other about your bookmarks than to write some that messes with your plain-text bookmarks.
Once again, my comment wasn't related to bookmarks specifically but for killing user friendly formats generally.
And no it's not meant to prevent malware to access, review, modify or delete default content but the user.Once started and gaining privileges malware can do anything, regardless of how software is designed.
-
frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by Krake:
Once again, my comment wasn't related to bookmarks specifically but for killing user friendly formats generally.
And no it's not meant to prevent malware to access, review, modify or delete default content but the user.I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying it's a form of proprietary lock-in? It's my data. I want to access and modify it however I want.
Originally posted by Krake:
Once started and gaining privileges malware can do anything, regardless of how software is designed.
Exactly. This, a thousand times this.
-
Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying it's a form of proprietary lock-in?
Exactly.
It's up to you to use such software or not. However I'm afraid your (and our all) options are very limited and will be even more in the future... -
j7nj7n last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
I wouldn't be surprised if SQLite puts malware authors closer to your data or at the very least no further, while it only makes things less accessible to the user.
Exactly. And then they'll claim that the user has chosen not to see this data as a sign of progress, when in fact the corporation had chosen for him, or that not seeing the data increases his security (against himself apparently).
-
-
l33t4opera last edited byWith all due respect, but on the contrary, it has QAB, but it's disabled by default, because this feature is still in continuous phase of development.
Nevertheless, you can already use it, just click above link, to find out how to enable it. -
Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Originally posted by Krake:
If you try to see it from the perspective of a contractor, there is a big advantage which you already mentioned
I'm not sure who the contractor is, but how do they profit from that?
I'm not pretending to know how the business works, but there is a business that works. It's called pay-per-click and earn-per-click. There are two kinds of agents on the internet. Some agents, the majority, like you and I, pay for the traffic that we "consume" whereas the others get paid for the traffic that they "generate". The different words "consume" and "generate" here refer to the exact same activity, but when you are a "consumer" you must pay for doing it, whereas the agents on earn-per-click programs earn for the number of users they have and the amount of traffic that they "generate".
This is a business that works. I'm not pretending to understand it, but we both know well enough that the business is there.
It's related to file formats somewhat this way: The less the user can keep track of the alterations in the files and programs on the system, the more licence the author of the program has to alter stuff (this incidentally applies also to the malware and spyware exploiting the program). Let's say the user can e.g. read the logs or modify bookmarks and configs ONLY from the interface provided by the author, because the corresponding profile files are unreadable and not easily modifiable. With no control over what goes on in the backend, there is an obvious chance for the program to beacon the changes to the author or whomever. To "ring home" as they say. When authors can do this with impunity, they will make the program ring home regularly, independent of user activity. So, authors can be just another case of spyware, and they can earn on it as internet traffic generators.
This is not a conspiracy theory nor an accusation against any author or company. It has actually been rather normal in internet software all along. Some authors may do it because they simply like spying, but some do it because it pays. We know the Opera browser well enough. At first it was shareware only. Then it was adware. Adware is a legalised moderate case of spyware. It rings home. If the ringing is specifically restricted, impersonalised, documented, and the user is appropriately informed (which was the case with Opera adware), then it's okay (legal at least). Adware is a case of earn-per-click. We Opera veterans have permitted ourselves to be used this way by this company and its software. It's still in the limits of some reason, because the software was fun and useful. The benefit was mutual.
But lately things have turned. The company has pushed unwanted updates and alterations on people on a number of occasions this year:
- Mobile v.14 (Chromium) on top of Mobile v.12 (Presto)
- Reappearing Google search engine beginning probably at v.12.15 on desktop http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1648442
- Opera Mini Smartpage http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1755772
- Google search field in Opera Blink that was removable, but then patched in later version to prevent users from removing it http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/86356712#comment111639102What can we conclude based on this list? Is it malware/spyware/adware or not? Or is it seemingly moving in that direction, but will never get there?
-
governator last edited by
I've been a dedicated Opera user for 13 years since Version 5 (with the bloated shareware ad & ICQ). I've supported and backed every move and every year I've had people tell me I'm completely insane to continue using it.
I understand moving to the Blink engine (somewhat) and I'm especially grateful for having a separate email client now which quickly imported my 70,000 emails. But I'll never understand releasing a browser that doesn't cater to the vast majority of its users, the veteran Opera users. Relying on 3rd party extensions for bookmark importing and offering a less than ideal product out of box than any competitor is a major step back. Opera is (was) the inventor, the guinea pig we can rely on for new features, options and ideas that competitors can only copy.
This could have been avoided by just releasing this as an Opera 'Lite' version while continuing with Presto until a proper browser was ready for public release. I'm disappointed, but thanks for the email client, that's all I need to move on for now with Chrome until you get it sorted out.
-
Deleted User last edited by
Originally posted by ersi:
The company has pushed unwanted updates and alterations on people on a number of occasions this year:
- Mobile v.14 (Chromium) on top of Mobile v.12 (Presto)
- Reappearing Google search engine beginning probably at v.12.15 on desktop http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1648442
- Opera Mini Smartpage http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1755772
- Google search field in Opera Blink that was removable, but then patched in later version to prevent users from removing it http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/show.dml/86356712#comment111639102What can we conclude based on this list? Is it malware/spyware/adware or not? Or is it seemingly moving in that direction, but will never get there?
One more case to add to the list. Opera is using Chrome's tacks to sneak into people's computers http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=14997322
Originally posted by bcbear86:
I found out that when Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she didn't uncheck the box.
Quo vadis, Opera? Bejeezus...
-
frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by ersi:
- Mobile v.14 (Chromium) on top of Mobile v.12 (Presto)
Trust me, I know.
Originally posted by ersi:
- Opera Mini Smartpage http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1755772
Wait, what? I occasionally use Opera Mini when I'm not on wifi and I have something of direct importance for me (e.g. bus/tram times). Some stupid "SmartPage" would probably use more than 10 times as much data as the one bookmarked page I check with images disabled. Ugh, that's awful.
Originally posted by ersi:
Originally posted by bcbear86:
I found out that when Java was updated, it had an option to install Opera and she didn't uncheck the box.
Quo vadis, Opera? Bejeezus...
I guess I can simply c/p what I said about Google:
http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog/show.dml/110522522?startidx=1100#comment113732752
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Besides a quick check whether you're indeed upgrading Flash and not some malware, who expects an update to install a new browser or some other piece of unrelated software? On top of which, there isn't always a checkbox either. Software companies tend to "forget" that, especially if you set it to update automatically. As if you automatically want to install other crap on your computer.
And if Google is offering money for such practices, why shouldn't one blame Google? Last I checked the person who pays a hitman also goes down for murder.
Quo vadis? I think I'll go straight for Et tu, Opera?
-
missingno last edited by
Originally posted by rilef:
All bookmarks from Opera 12 are imported into Opera 18. But only bookmarks on the Opera 12 bookmarks toolbar will show up on the QAB. Since Opera 18 does not have a bookmarks manager or bookmarks menu, as does Opera 12, you will not be able to access these additional bookmarks in Opera 18.
Hilariously funny. So, if I had been using bookmarks, all those would be imported but inaccessable as I don't want to clutter my space with a useless bar (I do have a menu bar where bookmarks could be found if available and needed)? How does this even fit with Pesala's fear of "wasting" screen estate? Does he really use a bookmark bar in 11.64?
-
frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by missingno:
Does he really use a bookmark bar in 11.64?
Of course not.
-
maryfromitaly last edited by
I've just downloaded Opera 18, and I must say I'm pretty horrified.
I've been an Opera user for many years, and always been pretty happy with it. I decided to upgrade today from Opera 12 because Flash no longer seems to work with it (I can't view youtube videos, etc.).
But why on earth have they messed up the bookmarks?
I've skimmed through the thread, but it doesn't help, because no quick access bookmark bar is displayed, and if I try to import my Opera 12 bookmarks it only gives me the option to import to Speed Dial, which is pointless because I have hundreds of bookmarks. The Opera help is quite useless on this topic.
Can anyone explain whether and how I can force it to display the quick access bookmark bar and let me import my bookmarks to it?
I already use Firefox for sites that don't perform well with Opera, but it's much slower, so I'd rather stick with Opera if this major problem can be fixed.
Thanks a lot,
Mary -
blackbird71 last edited byOriginally posted by maryfromitaly:
...no quick access bookmark bar is displayed, and if I try to import my Opera 12 bookmarks it only gives me the option to import to Speed Dial, which is pointless because I have hundreds of bookmarks. The Opera help is quite useless on this topic.
Can anyone explain whether and how I can force it to display the quick access bookmark bar and let me import my bookmarks to it? ...
MaryThere's a number of posts in the forums that explain how to make the QAB appear and how to then import bookmarks from "old"
Opera, and you can track them down using the forum search box in the upper right corner of the forum pages (I prefer "advanced search", looking back for more than 2 weeks and looking for posts as well as topics). One useful thread that does explain several things is: Helpful Extras to customize Opera 18/19, but you'll need to read down through it. You can make the QAB appear by entering opera:flags into the address bar and enabling QAB in that list. -
maryfromitaly last edited by
OK, thanks very much. However, I've just read one of the last posts on this thread, which says that only bookmarks that were on the old bookmarks toolbar will show up on the QAB; I didn't have a toolbar in Opera 12, just the side panel accessed with CTRL-B, so if that's the case, I'll be joining the ranks of ex-Opera users, I'm afraid.
Anyway, I'll read through the whole of this thread and the one you linked to tomorrow, and try and make some sense of it - thanks very much for your help.
Pity that Opera couldn't have made something so fundamentally useful a bit more obvious or intuitive, though.
Mary
-
A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by missingno:
How does this even fit with Pesala's fear of "wasting" screen estate? Does he really use a bookmark bar in 11.64?
Yes, he really does.
Old Opera allows you to create custom buttons just by dragging the above link to your address bar or any other toolbar that is already visible. One click on my custom button will show the bookmarks bar for 5 seconds, which is long enough to select one of my frequently used bookmarks. Click and drag down on the custom button will toggle it on or off, showing it for as long as I need it.
I still use the Panel if I need to use the Quick Find for a bookmark I have not used in a while, or if I want to do some organising to remove obsolete bookmarks, etc. I never use the Bookmarks Manager, and use the menu only for a few very commonly used bookmarks for which I know the Access keys by heart so, for example, Alt, B,¹ T,² S, M, M, Enter will open the first book in the Middle Length Discourse (majjhimanikāya).
¹ Alt B = Show popup menu, "Browser Bookmarks Menu"
² T = Tipitaka, then S = Suttanta, M = Majjhimanikaya, M = M.i. (book one).When we have this degree of customisation in Opera 21 (or whatever), I can think about upgrading, but there are other issues too, which still prevent me from upgrading to Opera 12.xx let alone Opera Next.
Originally posted by rilef:
All bookmarks from Opera 12 are imported into Opera 18. But only bookmarks on the Opera 12 bookmarks toolbar will show up on the QAB
This is “By Design.” It is importing the bookmarks to your Opera 18 profile, and assumes that you want the same bookmarks on your QAB as you had on your Bookmarks Bar in Opera 11 or 12, or your Personal Bar in Opera 8.54. After importing your bookmarks to Opera 18 profile (which should happen automatically with a fresh install AFAIK), you can now use the Bookmarks Importer on the menu or on the Speed Dial to import these bookmarks to the QAB or Speed Dial as appropriate.
All this is in preparation for when we have a bookmarks menu and manager in Opera Next. The QAB is just the first step for the benefit of those who cannot live without their bookmarks.
-
opera1215b1748 last edited by
Originally posted by yakyelnats:
...In my experience trolls continue to troll and usually come back with a vengeance...
Exactly - like someone calling himself "leushino" does!
-
cybe-rider last edited by
Originally posted by bosco30:
Originally posted by BernG:
Originally posted by scratchspace:
Originally posted by blackbird71:
I've observed that one of the common elements of quite a number of negative initial postings about Opera's bookmarks situation is that users who first fire up the new Opera are unable to locate or figure out its 'bookmarking' functionality. . . .
Opera seriously needs to get a team working ASAP on a coherent, instantly-accessible instruction/helps/how-to database for new users, broken out by version number . . .
Yes, a FAQ/guide of some sort is clearly needed. Unfortunately, the presence of such a FAQ would represent only a speed bump to the fraudulent/trolling "Where are the bookmarks?! I'm shocked! Good riddance, Opera!" posters (e.g., the OP here) who appear with some regularity on this forum.
Definitely agree that the OP post screams "fraudulent." Especially the whiny and attraction attention "Opera is a lost cause." The post just doesn't smell right.
I've also seen too many posts by so-called decision makers telling us they're considering Opera for their company, blah, blah blah. Yeah right.:rolleyes:
But why are these posters doing this? I think one reason is that these posters miss what Opera has lost and they are trying to create as much leverage as they can to get it back. They figure that a simple polite post will be ignored but if they seem more important and angry, the powers that be are more likely to listen to them. I think another reason is that they are simply enraged at the frustration they feel over what they see as dumb decisions made by management. In any case letting these comments stand unanswered is more likely to give management a nudge toward improving Opera. Undercutting these comments doesn't do anybody any good.
So damn right, you almost brought tears to my eyes. Honestly. It's hard to see those posts considered as enemy grenades by those that seem to fiercely defend new Opera as being a fantastic achievement up to gaining share in near future, when these posts simply represent a cry for help from a few that just still care for Opera. At least these ones show their thoughts, most of the ones that find themselves under same adversities just leave speechless. Browser geeks (no bad meant) should realize that for common users a web browser is not a purpose, it's a tool, nothing more than that, and it is required to bend to the user -as Opera did in the past, offering so many at such ease- not the opposite. Nowadays when I get to these forums I leave disappointed from finding the explanations (or pretended solutions) as just hard ways of going around problems that are simple user tasks in competition products. Not intending to advertise, just as an example, I tried a web browser -name starts by Max...- It's light, it transfers the bookmarks from the system automatically at (very quick) install process, smooth scrolling, no crashes, simple configuration, innovative for cloud environment, option to surf under Webkit or Trident modes at user will, it just felt I was using the Opera from the good old days. It is well underrated for all it does, its worldwide share is smaller than Opera's, however it is user-friendly enough for us to see the work spent in there is nothing but towards users to forget they are using a complex tool to achieve whatever purposes they want, in an universal manner. I'm not quiting Opera, I've been using it for too long, but I do expect Opera team to realize that all that Opera users want is to be happy with their surfing tool, even when they don't choose the right words to express it. Many times I've been proud to open Opera knowing my choice was the right one comparing to the heavy weight of IE to execute the same things that were so light to do in Opera, or avoiding the intrusion that Chrome represents in my data sharing prevention and the way it spreads into the system -same as FFox, or IE- but this may well be just my personal paranoia. I faced too many crashes in time from so many Opera updates to quit it. I have faith that in time it will be a great tool again, should those funny posts be taken into consideration, they mean far more than what it's written.
-
j7nj7n last edited by
I have tried the new Bookmarks system in Opium 19 and I find it very nice indeed. The menus look like menus, and can be cascaded in more than one level. I can also move from one menu to another without clicking, as if the QAB was a single menu bar. That is how I've always accessed my bookmarks – from a menu, instead of the side panel.
One minor issue remains that items on the bar can accidentally get dragged to a new location. That's an old problem with the similar Windows Start menu. For example, I can unfold a bookmarks menu by dragging the button down (like with the Forward and Back buttons). That's the new way, which might become intuitive soon. But if I drag slightly sideways, diagonally, I start dragging the button to another location, which is a quite different operation.
Perhaps there could be a setting that required a key to be held down to rearrange items – Shift to move them, Ctrl/Strg – to copy?
