Jon von Tetzchner, Opera's founder and former CEO spoke to The Register
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serious last edited by
biggerabalone:
I work in a big-ish software company (with a few hundred employees ... or are we even in the thousand range now?). I can tell you that if you kicked out the right 90 people (on all levels) the company would probably collapse (or at least it would hurt very much). If you kicked out 90 other people probably nothing would happen. So it really depends on who leaves.Also afaik the 90 people are those that "were let go" (to use that particular euphemism), which does not tell you anything about people who may have ragequit eg. as soon as the announcement was made to kill off presto or later when they noticed that all the promises like "we are gonna make an even better product than we had" (who else heard that particular sentence from his boss already) were not fulfilled.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by biggerabalone:
google doesn't want competition and pushed for the newer blink direction.
Hmm, not... The reason was Apple (the WebKit "founder" and biggest contributor) was pushing the code to work in a way different than Google wanted it to work in Chrome (it was very mentioned at the time that they weren't agreeing on what kind of new multi-process architecture they'd be using for example) so Google decided to fork the project.
Originally posted by biggerabalone:
those companies that paid a lot of money to develop a product around webkit, will be left behind. tomorrow, google will ditch blink for another flavor.
Do you keep thinking WebKit is paid? It's free and open source.
No one was left behind. As with all open source software, they were given freedom of choice to switch to Blink too or keep on WebKit which is still maintained and improved by many contributors including Apple. In fact Blink is already used in Maxthon and Sleipnir browsers with highest version numbers AFAIK, and Opera 14 for Android used WebKit and in Opera 15+ it's already Blink so the switch didn't even took long or seemed complicated for the devs.
Why would Google ditch Blink? They created it specifically so they could have everything they wanted for Chrome. -
frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Originally posted by biggerabalone:
those companies that paid a lot of money to develop a product around webkit, will be left behind. tomorrow, google will ditch blink for another flavor.
Do you keep thinking WebKit is paid? It's free and open source.
He didn't say Webkit is paid. :faint:
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
In fact Blink is already used in Maxthon and Sleipnir browsers with highest version numbers AFAIK, and Opera 14 for Android used WebKit and in Opera 15+ it's already Blink so the switch didn't even took long or seemed complicated for the devs.
Opera 14 was based on Chromium, so there was no such thing as a switch. :doh:
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frenzie last edited by
As jax says in his signature:
Originally posted by jax:
This forum is closing. There are two doors out. Door 1 Vivaldi | Door 2 The DnD Sanctuary
Perhaps I'll see you around.
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biggerabalone last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Originally posted by biggerabalone:
google doesn't want competition and pushed for the newer blink direction.
Hmm, not... The reason was Apple (the WebKit "founder" and biggest contributor) was pushing the code to work in a way different than Google wanted it to work in Chrome (it was very mentioned at the time that they weren't agreeing on what kind of new multi-process architecture they'd be using for example) so Google decided to fork the project.
Originally posted by biggerabalone:
those companies that paid a lot of money to develop a product around webkit, will be left behind. tomorrow, google will ditch blink for another flavor.
Do you keep thinking WebKit is paid? It's free and open source.
No one was left behind. As with all open source software, they were given freedom of choice to switch to Blink too or keep on WebKit which is still maintained and improved by many contributors including Apple. In fact Blink is already used in Maxthon and Sleipnir browsers with highest version numbers AFAIK, and Opera 14 for Android used WebKit and in Opera 15+ it's already Blink so the switch didn't even took long or seemed complicated for the devs.
Why would Google ditch Blink? They created it specifically so they could have everything they wanted for Chrome.i am not a browser developer. but i was under the impression that building a browser around webkit (for ex.) would be different than around trident (for ex). i believe we are seeing this with opera's move to blink from presto. this costs money to do. google is not your friend. they will continue to try and redefine what the internet is and how to view it and establish those features in chrome as the standards. when you build a nice little browser around blink, and start to make a modest coin, google will be watching. they will make radical changes to suit themselves and you will have to remake your browser once again. from the chromium blog:
“However, Chromium uses a different multi-process architecture than other WebKit-based browsers, and supporting multiple architectures over the years has led to increasing complexity for both the WebKit and Chromium projects. This has slowed down the collective pace of innovation – so today, we are introducing Blink, a new open source rendering engine based on WebKit.”
see, google introduced blink so it will not have to support other webkit-based browsers (its all about google, baby). it wants those other browsers dead. in the future, it will do the same with blink and those other blink-based browsers. this is a war, and google is not your friend. apple has responded with a promise to keep developing the webkit in a direction that it prefers, and to remove google's crap from it. the titans are posturing.
now i'd like to point out that just because webkit is open source, it doesn't mean you can freely use the name. the webkit name is a registered trademark of apple. and building webkit into a successful product builds its title into an household name, which is marketable (think about all those intel stickers on your computers). apple could charge webkit users to use that name. google hates that apple owns this. is blink a registered name of google? i bet you it is. if google owns it could they charge opera for using the registered blink name? you betya.
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biggerabalone last edited by
lol, after my last ramble in which i wondered if google registered the name for blink, like apple did for webkit. i see an article that states that microsoft beat them to it. google blinked and microsoft bought it. funny. perhaps google and opera will have to pay microsoft to use that name?
http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2013/04/15/microsoft-google-blink-trademark/#!wUJbZ
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Opera 14 was based on Chromium, so there was no such thing as a switch.
It went from WebKit to Blink regardless. As many other Chromium-based browsers that exist also did it automatically when upgrading the Chromium version.
Originally posted by biggerabalone:
see, google introduced blink so it will not have to support other webkit-based browsers (its all about google, baby). it wants those other browsers dead.
WTF? I'd like to know how did you came to this conclusion. Google does a lot of shitty things but this is not one of them.
WebKit still exists and browser makers can still choose to use it. Google switch to its Blink fork does nothing to make other browsers die, actually it gives them more choice.Originally posted by biggerabalone:
now i'd like to point out that just because webkit is open source, it doesn't mean you can freely use the name. the webkit name is a registered trademark of apple. and building webkit into a successful product builds its title into an household name, which is marketable (think about all those intel stickers on your computers). apple could charge webkit users to use that name. google hates that apple owns this. is blink a registered name of google? i bet you it is. if google owns it could they charge opera for using the registered blink name? you betya.
Yeah because Google used the WebKit name everywhere!(???) And THAT was the reason Chrome became successful right? And Apple sued them right? And Opera is using the Blink name everywhere to market Opera in their site isn't it?
Originally posted by biggerabalone:
they will make radical changes to suit themselves and you will have to remake your browser once again
As you can see from my Android Opera 14 -> 15 example, no you won't.
Originally posted by Frenzie:
Originally posted by jax:
This forum is closing. There are two doors out. Door 1 Vivaldi | Door 2 The DnD Sanctuary
Perhaps I'll see you around.
This forum isn't closing, it's getting a new official home soon. Vivaldi and DnD are not needed.
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biggerabalone last edited by
your hard-on for google is as undeniable as your selective reading. as to how i came to that conclusion, it was via google's quote, they said so (re-read it). i did state that they wanted other browsers dead. you deny this? you think google wants competition? and this from an opera employee. you sound more like a google employee. although, considering most of opera's browser coin comes from google anyway, it fits.
i guess the most powerful companies in the world are registering these names for no real reason. apparently branding is meaningless in our culture. if the can doesn't say coke, people won't buy it, even if it contains coke.
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alf5000 last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
This forum isn't closing,
How do I have to read this: "We have made decision to shutdown My Opera as of March 1, 2014."
[found here: http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/important-announcement-about-your-my-opera-account ]??Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Vivaldi and DnD are not needed.
That's interesting. Who else but me (and to some extent my wife) knows what I need??
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frenzie last edited by
Originally posted by alf5000:
How do I have to read this: "We have made decision to shutdown My Opera as of March 1, 2014."
Rafael is referring to this:
What about the forums?
Our forums will be moved to www.opera.com later. The most important threads will be moved there and you can still use your My Opera account to log in and continue the discussion. In other words: Your My Opera account is now your new Opera account that you can use for all Opera services and products.In a week or so we'll finally know what that means.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by missingno:
The interesting thing is: of the approximately 330 million Opera users about 300 million still use Opera 12.
Very interesting indeed.
I use 11.
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by JoshL:
Originally posted by missingno:
The interesting thing is: of the approximately 330 million Opera users about 300 million still use Opera 12.
Very interesting indeed.
I use 11.
The interesting thing is how you post ignoring all the other posts in this topic.
It was already clarified that there aren't 300 million Opera 12 users. Jon was referring to all Presto products including Opera Mini.
The interesting thing is how Jon uses this numbers intending to convince us, *cof cof* fool us *cof*, that the switch to Blink was a mistake when there's no replacement product for Presto-Mini yet (the product with more users, only available in Presto-in-server form) and when we already know >50% of the desktop user base is now using Opera 15+. -
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biggerabalone last edited by
Originally posted by rafaelluik:
Originally posted by JoshL:
Originally posted by missingno:
The interesting thing is: of the approximately 330 million Opera users about 300 million still use Opera 12.
Very interesting indeed.
I use 11.
The interesting thing is how you post ignoring all the other posts in this topic.
It was already clarified that there aren't 300 million Opera 12 users. Jon was referring to all Presto products including Opera Mini.
The interesting thing is how Jon uses this numbers intending to convince us, *cof cof* fool us *cof*, that the switch to Blink was a mistake when there's no replacement product for Presto-Mini yet (the product with more users, only available in Presto-in-server form) and when we already know >50% of the desktop user base is now using Opera 15+.its amazing only 50% use opera 15+ now, considering how the update unfolded. i was using presto, it said i had an update, i updated and ended up with 2 opera browsers: all i could think was, "what the hell happened?" this likely happened to most people who weren't impersed into the unfolding presto/webkit/blink crap. it seems to indicate that half of them disliked the newer opera, did some research (after the fact, like myself) and uninstalled opera 15+ to return to presto. the inbrowser update was never clear and simply stated there was an update. when there's an update, you update. 100% should be using opera 15+ considering how this transpired. even the update services indicated that we needed to update (i use 4 and they all told me to update).
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A Former User last edited by
Originally posted by biggerabalone:
its amazing only 50% use opera 15+ now
MORE THAN 50% (unspecified percentage/amount) of the desktop users use 15+
Originally posted by biggerabalone:
considering how the update unfolded
No update unfolded, users aren't even being notified via auto-update.
Originally posted by biggerabalone:
i was using presto, it said i had an update, i updated and ended up with 2 opera browsers (...) the inbrowser update was never clear and simply stated there was an update. when there's an update, you update. 100% should be using opera 15+ considering how this transpired. even the update services indicated that we needed to update (i use 4 and they all told me to update).
You'd be the first case of this happening that I know of. I doubt this occurrence completely.
And what update service are you talking about? It's definitely not official.Originally posted by biggerabalone:
it seems to indicate that half of them disliked the newer opera
Nope, it indicates that less than half of users don't know about the new version OR prefer to stay with it for the time being.
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biggerabalone last edited by
rafaelluik - "MORE THAN 50% (unspecified percentage/amount) of the desktop users use 15+"
ok, so 51% would accurately meet your statements qualifiers and quench your outrage. its your words, not mine.
http://www.scip.ch/en/?vuldb.9746
"Upgrading to version 15.0 eliminates this vulnerability. A possible mitigation has been published immediately after the disclosure of the vulnerability. The vulnerability is also documented in the vulnerability database at OSVDB (95633 ⇗)"
this was picked up at the time by others recommending updating to 15.
opera quickly patched this in 12.16 (although it says a "possible mitigation" ...) - but some advisories recommended updating to 15 before a fix for 12 was made.
and i was informed of 15 in my 12 browser via a link. it did not auto update. when you see an higher version is out, you update presuming you are supposed too. as i said, various update checkers also identified the new opera version (such as sumo, filehippo, and surfpatrol). how opera handles updates (or informing of development) is not always clear, ex. when they made a regression so the new beta version was 12.10.1592 and no longer 12.50.1583.0 . or when you were directed to their page and see 15 and next (but you can still use 12 - if you search their blog). clear as mud.
