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OLD IS GOLD, we want new opera with all old stuff

  • ... The whining I see here along with the constant panning of the new browser is frankly bogus. ... I disagree that "all they are trying to do is describe where Blink falls short." If that were all that they were trying to do, they would make their suggestions over in the appropriate folder for that (Suggestions). The number of posts we read here describing the new browser as dumbed-down and useless for "serious" work and so-called "power users" is simply ridiculous. ...>

    I'm not inside the minds of those who post here about problems with the new Opera, so I can't actually know in detail what motivates each of them... other than noting the obvious reality that they're all unhappy about the new browser in some way or another. I can only know my own mind; and from my own opinions and perspectives, I can identify with the reality of many of the complaints being raised by others, though not necessarily the terms some may use to express them, nor the desperation being implied about options.

    Readers here are frequently told there are only a few users who "might" actually "need" the missing features and configurability, and thus those users' complaints are deemed trivial. Yet, at the same time, we're told that the number of posts complaining about them is "simply ridiculous". Well, the numbers can't be true both ways.

    What has actually emerged is a misleading paradigm wherein the complaints of those who find Blink Opera to be deficient in some way compared with Presto Opera and raise specific examples are continually marginalized by others as only representing minor opinions of just a "few", "geeks", or those "unable to adapt". Yet as other Blink Opera users have continued to post those same objections when they themselves discover them, their opinions are marginalized and dismissed as merely coming from repetitive "whiners" and "complainers". Net result: outright dismissal of complaints, especially recurring complaints. Some of this has been brought on by posters who have gone far overboard in negativity and attack, rather than patiently explaining and requesting dialogue on the merits of their complaints. Regardless, to my observation, the problematic paradigm has taken hold here... though I certainly hope it hasn't with Opera's developers, else it will blind them to the real need for certain areas of improvement.

    As the last 9 months have unfolded, and much the same complaints continue to emerge from those trying Blink Opera for the first time, I believe reasonable folks would come to recognize the possibility that maybe, just maybe, those complaining are raising valid points in those repeating areas, and that they indeed represent more than just a trivial component of the user universe. I believe many such users post complaints here because the natural inclination is to post in a software forum created to deal with user problems, and to those users, the loss of key features seems to them like a real user problem. On the other hand, if Opera ASA truly wants the user complaints to be posted in the "Suggestions" forum, then it needs to clearly retitle that forum to something like "Suggestions and Complaints"... otherwise, it's not necessarily intuitive for users to post their complaints there instead of here.

  • leushino, just wondering... how much you are getting paid by Opera for answering every single complaint on this forum? Or you just really don't have anything better to do with your life?

  • @awzx: boatloads of money! I just returned from the pier and had to rent another U-Haul truck due to the gold bars Opera are now sending my way. Oh... and you're right. I have no life outside of slapping the wrists of cry babies. I never plan our Hawaiian vacations but leave that to my wife. I would tell you about my day so far (I've spent about an hour on the internet since 6:30 a.m. this morning) but you would refuse to believe my report. In your view I have no life. 😉 If that helps you by labeling me then by all means.

  • Hey, I'll label you no problem! Your a Troll! Your the "cry baby" leushino. Even if a user states they like Opera but miss something, you feel the need to jump on them. You should just make a template telling people to learn to adapt, stick with 12.16, go to Seamonkey ,on and on. That would save you some time. You hate it when anyone isn't totally happy with the new Opera. It dives you crazy doesn't it!! We see it does. Well rest assured, we have read all your posts and because your so helpful, your the only one taking you seriously now Troll.

    @ Blackbird71

    Best post ever man!!! Keep up the good work!!!

    @ awzx

    He has nothing better to do I bet.

  • blackbird71

    an excellent synopsis. where there’s smoke there’s fire. hopefully the firemen are working on it (and judging from the progression from 15 to 20 they are, but there's still a lot of work to be done). now note that when i said "there's still a lot of work to be done", i will again be labelled a troll and dismissed and occasionally ridiculed (apparently b/c 20 is perfect, as was 18 b/f it). there are opera nazis here that dislike creative criticism. i've been called a troll for genuinely asking if presto will be opensourced (it was my first post, who new that this would evoke such hatred? not i). i suggested a feature that `the unmentionable browser' has that i thought would benefit opera. oops. that's not allowed you vial troll. lol. this is not a browser war between companies, we are witnessing opera supporters turning on themselves.

  • +1 biggerabalone

  • No fire, Guys. There's smoke but only because a few diehards are fanning it and have been doing so for months now. Opera 20 is an awesome browser. Seriously, you should learn to use it and adapt your browsing habits to it instead of insist that it conform to your ideas... especially non-paying ideas.

  • Who, who's been "fanning" it for months? Not me. Not biggerabalone. Who's insisting? Tell us! What, we can't mention the things we'd like to see? The things we miss. Yea Opera 20 is awesome, but we can't say what we'd like to see in it.

    leushino said:
    "Seriously, you should learn to use it and adapt your browsing habits to it instead of insist that it conform to your ideas... especially non-paying ideas."

    Are you kidding me?? Really!!!I can probably use it better than you! You are so condescending to us all. Your sad man. Really sad. Someday, somewhere on some other forum, maybe people will take you seriously again. Not here!

    oh yea, and stop trolling the new people, it's not nice so knock it off!!!

  • Back topic. Following features have to be reimplemented ASAP:

    1. Bookmarks as in Opera 12.x

    2. stacked tabs / tab groups

    3. editable keyboard short cuts

    4. an empty new tab without all the crap (stash, discover, search bar, ...)

  • Let us stop dreaming. The good Opera days are over.

    They simply do not care about us.

  • They care about you. Bear in mind that they listened to the complaint regarding the lack of bookmarks are gave us the QAB in spite of the findings of the survey to the contrary. What is not being accepted, however, is that the new browser is not exactly like the Presto version and never will be. I think if you run both side by side and watch the how the new Opera develops over time, you will ultimately be pleased with it. And by running both you can become more familiar with the newer version and learn how to adapt to the changes.

  • In rereading my reply above I'm amazed at the spelling and grammatical errors. Chalk it up to early morning and lack of coffee.

  • Sorry. Looks like you'll have to make do with Palemoon and various addons. Opera is dead and it probably won't come back. The fact that they threw everything out the window suggests Google implanted a trojan horse agent like Nokia's Elop.

  • LOL... have you ever thought about writing fantasy novels? I think you might have missed your calling. :-p

  • ... Opera is dead and it probably won't come back. The fact that they threw everything out the window suggests Google implanted a trojan horse agent like Nokia's Elop.

    Careful! Your paranoia's showing.

  • The reason why inOperate = Chrode is because I firmly believe that the devs were told by Opera that if they make it look like Chrode then some company will buy it for $$$ millions and that the devs will get a big chunk of that pie. Its all about money my friend. I still use to this day Opera 11.52. And I love it!!

    Adding insult to injury, the stupid forum rules say that you cant comment negatively on inOperate because if you do, you might dissuade potential buyers (speculating companies) from buying inOperate.

    I'm going to launch a thread urging all those die-hard Opera loyalists to join forces with me and in unison, voice our concerns in bringing Opera back. If the mods dont like it thats too bad.

  • Excuse me but if the moderator does not like it, then that's too bad for YOU! There are terms of service and evidently you have failed to read them.

  • @taurusx5, is it your intention to copy the text of your post into every 'negative' forum thread?

    https://forums.opera.com/post/33159

  • I haven't read every post on every thread, but I what I haven't seen anyone mention yet is the unfortunate fact that with Opera v12 and older (Presto), there was always a small minority of websites that simply did not display properly in Opera.

    I have used Opera as my primary browser for 13 years. During that time, I came to use and appreciate many, many of its advanced and unique features. A few favorite examples: the ability to customize preferences such as browser identification, and whether plug-ins loaded automatically on a "per-site" basis with the "Edit Site Preferences" command, mouse gestures, and not losing typed entries in a web form when using the forward/back buttons when other browsers would tell you that the page MUST be reloaded (can anyone using v20 tell me if these features are implemented?).

    Throughout these years, I always had to keep a secondary browser to deal with those few sites that just seemed to trip Opera up. I blamed this, of course, on the website developers, because they obviously did not test their site with Opera (presumably due to its small market share). I didn't really care which one, and used IE, FF, and Chrome at different times, while continuing to use Opera for 97% of my browsing.

    However, it was always a little annoying to have to open up another browsing for that 3% of sites that didn't work (case in point, the new American Airlines site). For everything else, I usually have one program. It just makes things easier. I don't do 3% of word processing in a 2nd program, and I don't send 3% of my email with a 2nd program. I used to like GOM Player for video playback, but once I realized that VLC plays 100% of videos, I couldn't be bothered to have several different video players all installed on my computer.

    All this to say: I can understand why Opera would decide to abandon their rendering engine and adopt one which would be supported by 100% of websites by virtue of the fact that all web developers test their sites with Chrome. So I am ready to support Opera v20+. But Opera ASA needs to understand that there was a compelling reason for users like me (who I believe comprise most of the folks posting here) to continue using Opera all those years despite the fact that we still had to keep another browser for those 3% of sites: We loved and needed the functionality of Opera on the 97% of sites!!! And after 5, 10, 15 years using that, it is not going to be easy to give that up. People who prioritized 100% compatibility would have dumped Opera ages ago for Firefox or Chrome. I think what has a lot of us scratching our heads is why Blink isn't being released in beta while Presto is still the official version. Until Blink has the functionality that compelled us to use Opera even when web developers weren't testing on it, we don't understand how Opera ASA could market this is as the official release of their product.

    So here's the point: I already had Chrome installed to deal with the 3%. I'm not going to install a 3rd browser. So until Opera v20+ re-implements all the functionality of v12, I'm not ready to make the jump. Why would I install this browser when I still need to keep v12 around to do a lot of tasks that v20 can't do yet?

    posted with Opera v12.15 x64

  • I think what has a lot of us scratching our heads is why Blink isn't being released in beta while Presto is still the official version. Until Blink has the functionality that compelled us to use Opera even when web developers weren't testing on it, we don't understand how Opera ASA could market this is as the official release of their product.

    I've been saying this since I first heard about the change. The launch of ChrOpera was so mind-bogglingly ill-conceived, that I just couldn't believe it.