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OLD IS GOLD, we want new opera with all old stuff

  • What? You can no longer do "serious research"? Really? How was "serious research" done in the 90's before the advent of tabs, side panels etc? And who says that the changes that are being introduced are for change sake alone? It may be mind-boggling to you simply because you refuse to adapt and learn new ways of doing things. I know people who can accomplish work with their pc's using the new browser (i.e. I'm one of them). I suppose it's time for you to either contine using the older version (which will eventually be useless to you), use another browser and be happy with that (i.e. Seamonkey should float your boat) OR run the new Opera browser alongside the old and learn over time to appreciate its features and how to make use of it.

  • What? You can no longer do "serious research"? Really? How was "serious research" done in the 90's before the advent of tabs, side panels etc? And who says that the changes that are being introduced are for change sake alone? ...

    Uhmm... it was harder and more time-consuming to do "serious research" in the 90's - I was there, and even before that. Those features (among others) were, to some users, very valuable additions that Opera developers added to their browser over time. Whether intentional or not, they made "serious research" easier to accomplish for those who learned to adapt their work methods to incorporate the features. The question for such users now is whether the Blink Opera feature set currently provides equivalent methodology to those key features users find are now missing... and for many "serious research" users, it does not. In the absence of genuinely equivalent features in Blink Opera, we are actually being asked to return "to the 90's"... or else told to migrate elsewhere. The failure of those who simplistically use bookmarks to grasp the impact of the absence of a good bookmarks manager and full bookmarks integration upon users who heavily rely on those features is but a microcosm of what is happening with other features (such as sidebars, notes, etc) that some users had come to rely heavily upon.

    Although some of that performance which is now missing can be obtained from 3rd-party extensions, those implementations in most cases fall short of the integrated performance of native feature sets in the browser itself. Extension stability and functionality are unpredictable whenever Opera (or any other browser) issues an update, something occurring more often now than in bygone years. The security implications of a user having to cobble together and maintain an array of extensions from 3rd parties is demonstrably worse than what exists by using just a browser fully developed by experienced and competent designers.

    While Opera is free to do whatever it wants with its browser designs, and while users must learn to somehow live in the real world thus created, those users themselves can logically be the only ultimate judges of what they "need", of what impacts they are experiencing if their "needed" previous features are missing, and the effectiveness of other imputed "work-around" suggestions as substitutes. Right now, many of those users are trying to describe where Blink Opera falls short.

  • Harder to do serious work? Meh... not necessarily. When I was working on my Master's I didn't have the luxury of the internet but I made do with the tools that were available to me and I didn't complain. The whining I see here along with the constant panning of the new browser is frankly bogus. If they don't like the new browser, then all they need to do is use the former Presto version. I disagree that "all they are trying to do is describe where Blink falls short." If that were all that they were trying to do, they would make their suggestions over in the appropriate folder for that (Suggestions). The number of posts we read here describing the new browser as dumbed-down and useless for "serious" work and so-called "power users" is simply ridiculous. They make about as much sense as the guy who complained that he lost all of his important email when Opera closed MyOpera. Admittedly he hadn't checked on this "important" email in two months (really?) but nevertheless he could still find something over which to complain.

    The solution is simple:

    • use Opera Presto. Since THIS is the browser you must have for serious work... USE IT. It's still workable even though it might have issues opening Facebook and Yahoo email (neither of which should prevent you from doing your serious work).

    • use a different browser. I have four browsers on my computer and they seem to play well together. What exactly is the problem?

    • learn to adapt.

  • ... The whining I see here along with the constant panning of the new browser is frankly bogus. ... I disagree that "all they are trying to do is describe where Blink falls short." If that were all that they were trying to do, they would make their suggestions over in the appropriate folder for that (Suggestions). The number of posts we read here describing the new browser as dumbed-down and useless for "serious" work and so-called "power users" is simply ridiculous. ...>

    I'm not inside the minds of those who post here about problems with the new Opera, so I can't actually know in detail what motivates each of them... other than noting the obvious reality that they're all unhappy about the new browser in some way or another. I can only know my own mind; and from my own opinions and perspectives, I can identify with the reality of many of the complaints being raised by others, though not necessarily the terms some may use to express them, nor the desperation being implied about options.

    Readers here are frequently told there are only a few users who "might" actually "need" the missing features and configurability, and thus those users' complaints are deemed trivial. Yet, at the same time, we're told that the number of posts complaining about them is "simply ridiculous". Well, the numbers can't be true both ways.

    What has actually emerged is a misleading paradigm wherein the complaints of those who find Blink Opera to be deficient in some way compared with Presto Opera and raise specific examples are continually marginalized by others as only representing minor opinions of just a "few", "geeks", or those "unable to adapt". Yet as other Blink Opera users have continued to post those same objections when they themselves discover them, their opinions are marginalized and dismissed as merely coming from repetitive "whiners" and "complainers". Net result: outright dismissal of complaints, especially recurring complaints. Some of this has been brought on by posters who have gone far overboard in negativity and attack, rather than patiently explaining and requesting dialogue on the merits of their complaints. Regardless, to my observation, the problematic paradigm has taken hold here... though I certainly hope it hasn't with Opera's developers, else it will blind them to the real need for certain areas of improvement.

    As the last 9 months have unfolded, and much the same complaints continue to emerge from those trying Blink Opera for the first time, I believe reasonable folks would come to recognize the possibility that maybe, just maybe, those complaining are raising valid points in those repeating areas, and that they indeed represent more than just a trivial component of the user universe. I believe many such users post complaints here because the natural inclination is to post in a software forum created to deal with user problems, and to those users, the loss of key features seems to them like a real user problem. On the other hand, if Opera ASA truly wants the user complaints to be posted in the "Suggestions" forum, then it needs to clearly retitle that forum to something like "Suggestions and Complaints"... otherwise, it's not necessarily intuitive for users to post their complaints there instead of here.

  • leushino, just wondering... how much you are getting paid by Opera for answering every single complaint on this forum? Or you just really don't have anything better to do with your life?

  • @awzx: boatloads of money! I just returned from the pier and had to rent another U-Haul truck due to the gold bars Opera are now sending my way. Oh... and you're right. I have no life outside of slapping the wrists of cry babies. I never plan our Hawaiian vacations but leave that to my wife. I would tell you about my day so far (I've spent about an hour on the internet since 6:30 a.m. this morning) but you would refuse to believe my report. In your view I have no life. 😉 If that helps you by labeling me then by all means.

  • Hey, I'll label you no problem! Your a Troll! Your the "cry baby" leushino. Even if a user states they like Opera but miss something, you feel the need to jump on them. You should just make a template telling people to learn to adapt, stick with 12.16, go to Seamonkey ,on and on. That would save you some time. You hate it when anyone isn't totally happy with the new Opera. It dives you crazy doesn't it!! We see it does. Well rest assured, we have read all your posts and because your so helpful, your the only one taking you seriously now Troll.

    @ Blackbird71

    Best post ever man!!! Keep up the good work!!!

    @ awzx

    He has nothing better to do I bet.

  • blackbird71

    an excellent synopsis. where there’s smoke there’s fire. hopefully the firemen are working on it (and judging from the progression from 15 to 20 they are, but there's still a lot of work to be done). now note that when i said "there's still a lot of work to be done", i will again be labelled a troll and dismissed and occasionally ridiculed (apparently b/c 20 is perfect, as was 18 b/f it). there are opera nazis here that dislike creative criticism. i've been called a troll for genuinely asking if presto will be opensourced (it was my first post, who new that this would evoke such hatred? not i). i suggested a feature that `the unmentionable browser' has that i thought would benefit opera. oops. that's not allowed you vial troll. lol. this is not a browser war between companies, we are witnessing opera supporters turning on themselves.

  • +1 biggerabalone

  • No fire, Guys. There's smoke but only because a few diehards are fanning it and have been doing so for months now. Opera 20 is an awesome browser. Seriously, you should learn to use it and adapt your browsing habits to it instead of insist that it conform to your ideas... especially non-paying ideas.

  • Who, who's been "fanning" it for months? Not me. Not biggerabalone. Who's insisting? Tell us! What, we can't mention the things we'd like to see? The things we miss. Yea Opera 20 is awesome, but we can't say what we'd like to see in it.

    leushino said:
    "Seriously, you should learn to use it and adapt your browsing habits to it instead of insist that it conform to your ideas... especially non-paying ideas."

    Are you kidding me?? Really!!!I can probably use it better than you! You are so condescending to us all. Your sad man. Really sad. Someday, somewhere on some other forum, maybe people will take you seriously again. Not here!

    oh yea, and stop trolling the new people, it's not nice so knock it off!!!

  • Back topic. Following features have to be reimplemented ASAP:

    1. Bookmarks as in Opera 12.x

    2. stacked tabs / tab groups

    3. editable keyboard short cuts

    4. an empty new tab without all the crap (stash, discover, search bar, ...)

  • Let us stop dreaming. The good Opera days are over.

    They simply do not care about us.

  • They care about you. Bear in mind that they listened to the complaint regarding the lack of bookmarks are gave us the QAB in spite of the findings of the survey to the contrary. What is not being accepted, however, is that the new browser is not exactly like the Presto version and never will be. I think if you run both side by side and watch the how the new Opera develops over time, you will ultimately be pleased with it. And by running both you can become more familiar with the newer version and learn how to adapt to the changes.

  • In rereading my reply above I'm amazed at the spelling and grammatical errors. Chalk it up to early morning and lack of coffee.

  • Sorry. Looks like you'll have to make do with Palemoon and various addons. Opera is dead and it probably won't come back. The fact that they threw everything out the window suggests Google implanted a trojan horse agent like Nokia's Elop.

  • LOL... have you ever thought about writing fantasy novels? I think you might have missed your calling. :-p

  • ... Opera is dead and it probably won't come back. The fact that they threw everything out the window suggests Google implanted a trojan horse agent like Nokia's Elop.

    Careful! Your paranoia's showing.

  • The reason why inOperate = Chrode is because I firmly believe that the devs were told by Opera that if they make it look like Chrode then some company will buy it for $$$ millions and that the devs will get a big chunk of that pie. Its all about money my friend. I still use to this day Opera 11.52. And I love it!!

    Adding insult to injury, the stupid forum rules say that you cant comment negatively on inOperate because if you do, you might dissuade potential buyers (speculating companies) from buying inOperate.

    I'm going to launch a thread urging all those die-hard Opera loyalists to join forces with me and in unison, voice our concerns in bringing Opera back. If the mods dont like it thats too bad.

  • Excuse me but if the moderator does not like it, then that's too bad for YOU! There are terms of service and evidently you have failed to read them.