zalex108
zalex108

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Hi,
Are you working on a new "Site Settings" look different than Chrome?

image

Image source: https://www.howtogeek.com/188241/how-to-modify-permissions-for-individual-websites-in-all-browsers/

Are you working on a new revamped "Site Settings" menu? :D

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leocg
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leocg

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I don't think they are.

zalex108
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zalex108

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I don't think they are.

Disappointed too...?

leocg
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leocg

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Disappointed too...?

Nope, just answering the question. :-)

zalex108
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zalex108

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:/

I don't understand this kind of strategy...
Prioritize new features but keep the most common used / useful features outside the game...

Opera was the most complete and innovator browser, don't know if all that good consciousness lives now in Vivaldi or where is it.

tree1891
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tree1891

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Opera was the most complete and innovator browser, don't know if all that good consciousness lives now in Vivaldi or where is it.

I hope Opera integrate with Vivaldi.

leocg
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leocg

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Prioritize new features but keep the most common used / useful features outside the game.

Site settings is not something that most people keep changing that often so I guess it's not top priority implementing per site settings like in Chrome.

Opera was the most complete and innovator browser

Yep, and it basically led to....nowhere. Opera Presto was a very nice browser for geeks and so on but that was it.

Presto never had more than 2 or 3% of the market and, in the end, the innovative browser just became something unsustainable.

Besides that, the world changed. Computers and the web were of something mainly for the 'techy' people, for the geeks to something that (almost) anyone could use and softwares needed to adapt themselves.

leocg
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leocg

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I hope Opera integrate with Vivaldi.

Please don't curse Opera. :P

zalex108
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zalex108

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Prioritize new features but keep the most common used / useful features outside the game.

Site settings is not something that most people keep changing that often so I guess it's not top priority implementing per site settings like in Chrome.

In that way, Opera forces users to lose time:

  • Going to the Settings and find the right setting to change, one or two times per site.
  • Searching for an extensions to have the settings "at hand".

Market share = time advantage (Despite human stupidity...)
If the users spend lot of time doing things that others products give them quite easly... couldn't expect too much

Opera was the most complete and innovator browser

Yep, and it basically led to....nowhere. Opera Presto was a very nice browser for geeks and so on but that was it.

Presto never had more than 2 or 3% of the market and, in the end, the innovative browser just became something unsustainable.

Besides that, the world changed. Computers and the web were of something mainly for the 'techy' people, for the geeks to something that (almost) anyone could use and softwares needed to adapt themselves.

Don't know about marketing movements, long time ago few people were on tech comparatively with now, lot more IT workers at present. Now, mostly there are 2 or 3 tech devices per person (users), so, knowing Opera for mobile they probably know / test Opera for Desktop too ( it's a supposition) "*" and every one may use Opera because smartphones and tablets market it's bigger.
It seems Opera it's still for Geeks, because you need to dive into extensions for small basic things, so...
What is the point between, geeks and users if finally you have to spend time in AddOns store and load the product with lot of "addons" if others are less visual spectacular but have the most basic features?¿

As an example, how many users use or know VPN?
How many users use currency converter?
How many users uses Feed Reader?


How are that kind of users?


I don't thing basic users use this kind of features, even now.

So, I don't understand that kind of strategy...



"*" Should be a post (if not exist in this new forums yet)..., "When / How you started with Opera"
Poll needed :(

  • Home / Friends
  • School
  • Work
  • Net: Blogs / Forums...
  • Net advert
  • Mobile device / App Store
  • Tv
  • Theatre... :rolleyes: :lol:
joshl
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joshl

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As an example, how many users use or know VPN? How many users use currency converter? How many users uses Feed Reader?

  1. I know what it is since last year.
  2. What for??? :confused:
  3. What sort of an animal is that? :knight:

I was using Opera since like 2006, started on my phone: Opera Mini 3.0. I was not a geek. I continued using Opera on my computer as my MAIN browser since I got one. I'm still not a geek: a friend tried to seduce me to learn HTML, I miserably failed :party:


2 to 3 per cent, Leo?
Who are the rest 97 to 98?? B)

leocg
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leocg

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This may be getting off-topic.

In that way, Opera forces users to lose time:

It may be valid for those few who keep changing settings often but I would say that 90%+ probably will never change a setting or will do it once in a lifetime.

Market share = time advantage (Despite human stupidity...)

Market share helps you to get more revenue. :-)

If the users spend lot of time doing things that others products give them quite easly... couldn't expect too much

So you are basically confirming that Opera Presto wasn't that perfect browser. :-)

Now, mostly there are 2 or 3 tech devices per person (users), so, knowing Opera for mobile they probably know / test Opera for Desktop too ( it's a supposition) "*" and every one may use Opera because smartphones and tablets market it's bigger.

When Opera started, both computers and the Internet were something for a few ones who could use and afford it.

Now they are part of people's daily life. People who just want to read their favorite news pages, find some recipes, talk to their grandchildren and so on.

Those people want simple things.

It seems Opera it's still for Geeks, because you need to dive into extensions for small basic things, so..

But who needs it? The geeks or the regular users?

As I said, I think regular users just want to be able to access pages without that much complication.

users if finally you have to spend time in AddOns store and load the product with lot of "addons" if others are less visual spectacular but have the most basic features?¿

What basic features? They are the same for everyone?

As an example, how many users use or know VPN? How many users use currency converter? How many users uses Feed Reader?

I don't know how many use those features but I think they are probably more useful for regular, common users than individual site settings.

So, I don't understand that kind of strategy...

The idea is always to try to bring new users and keep the current ones, I would say.

leocg
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leocg

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2 to 3 per cent, Leo? Who are the rest 97 to 98??

Chrome, Internet Explorer, Firefox, Mosaic, etc.

zalex108
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zalex108

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As an example, how many users use or know VPN? How many users use currency converter? How many users uses Feed Reader?

I know what it is since last year.

:up:

What for???

Skip country blockings (mostly)
Skip IP tracking...

What sort of an animal is that?

About Feed Reader¿?
Just a joke I suppose xD

I was using Opera since like 2006, started on my phone: Opera Mini 3.0. I was not a geek. I continued using Opera on my computer as my MAIN browser since I got one. I'm still not a geek: a friend tried to seduce me to learn HTML, I miserably failed

:up:
:lol:

2 to 3 per cent, Leo? Who are the rest 97 to 98??

Deficient browsers = Human ""stupidity :rolleyes:

zalex108
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zalex108

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This may be getting off-topic.

Don't bother... I'm the post starter xDD

In that way, Opera forces users to lose time:

It may be valid for those few who keep changing settings often but I would say that 90%+ probably will never change a setting or will do it once in a lifetime.

Market share = time advantage (Despite human stupidity...)

Market share helps you to get more revenue. :-) "*"

But usually a good product has a good market share.

If the users spend lot of time doing things that others products give them quite easly... couldn't expect too much

So you are basically confirming that Opera Presto wasn't that perfect browser. :-)

Opera presto had more options than other browsers, there were userscripts to complete the browser... then the extensions appear and a lot of things could be done, despite Opera start that way later than others, but usually most of the needings were supplied by UserScipts, but with the extensions you can do things nicer.

Now, mostly there are 2 or 3 tech devices per person (users), so, knowing Opera for mobile they probably know / test Opera for Desktop too ( it's a supposition) "*" and every one may use Opera because smartphones and tablets market it's bigger.

When Opera started, both computers and the Internet were something for a few ones who could use and afford it. Now they are part of people's daily life. People who just want to read their favorite news pages, find some recipes, talk to their grandchildren and so on. Those people want simple things.

Opera has complex things.

It seems Opera it's still for Geeks, because you need to dive into extensions for small basic things, so..

But who needs it? The geeks or the regular users?

It's there when need it, for every user.

As I said, I think regular users just want to be able to access pages without that much complication. users if finally you have to spend time in AddOns store and load the product with lot of "addons" if others are less visual spectacular but have the most basic features?¿ What basic features? They are the same for everyone?

Translation¿?
Unload toolbar from extension icons¿?
Reset browser option when problems detected?

(Would be nice to add a "Panic Button" to clear cache / cookies and disable extensions when everything goes wrong)

Here in the forums are a part of what users need / want.

As an example, how many users use or know VPN? How many users use currency converter? How many users uses Feed Reader?

I don't know how many use those features but I think they are probably more useful for regular, common users than individual site settings.

Many posts problems are solved cleaning cookies and cache, it could be managed without asking in the forums with an easy access and an info banner:
(Clean site settings if the page looks or goes wrong)

So, I don't understand that kind of strategy...

The idea is always to try to bring new users and keep the current ones, I would say.

Of course, but usually the question should be:
How satisfied are the users with the product?
Are we fulfilling the needings?

Could I learn from my colleges competitors?
Could I doing it better¿?


"*" Do the extensions creators get any revenue? Most of them are essentials!
Without extensions, Chromium is nothing, (as all now). Could be the time to help each other working together, browsers and extensions creators, maybe some extensions could be ported to the browser as a feature fully optimized.


So, I don't understand that kind of strategy...

leocg
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leocg

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Don't bother... I'm the post starter xDD

The problem is that it may confuse people that come here searching for certain info.

leocg
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leocg

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But usually a good product has a good market share.

It may depend on several factors. Marketing can make a huge difference for example.

Opera presto had more options than other browsers

For sure, but at the same time that it was something good for some users, for others it used to cause some confusion mainly because people tended to forget that they had enabled/disabled one of those options or had a custom menu/toolbar.

Also, all those options turned Presto in something hard to maintain.

As I said sometimes, I'm not against options, features, etc but they should be evaluated before being implemented so the same mistakes will not happen again.

Like the pinned topic on this forum says, a new feature/option should be useful for most users.

Opera has complex things.

It's a complex software. :-D

It's there when need it, for every user.

Sorry, but things don't work that way. You can't simply go adding options and features without checking if they would be really useful for both the users and the software authors.

Like I always say: more options/features means more code, more code means more (chances of) bugs.

Translation¿?

You can add Google Translator or any other as a search engine. I did that and I use it.

Opera could allow use search engines with urls in address bar. I think it would be better than being asked all the tine if you want to translate a page like in Chrome.

Anyway, as Opera don't have a translation service, adding a translation feature may depend on a legal agreement with one of those services.

Unload toolbar from extension icons¿?

How it would be useful?

Reset browser option when problems detected?

A rest button would be interesting, something like the one in flags page.

Anyway, none of those could be called basic features.

Many posts problems are solved cleaning cookies and cache, it could be managed without asking in the forums with an easy access and an info banner

It may work for the more 'tech savvy' users who know what to do and, more than everything, know what they are doing. The others would still ask for help.

And cleaning cookies should be an ultimate solution as it makes the user loose many site configurations.>

Of course, but usually the question should be: How satisfied are the users with the product? Are we fulfilling the needings?

Welcome to capitalism. Welcome to real world. :-D>

Without extensions, Chromium is nothing

Why?

I use only one extension in Chrome, mainly for testing purposes. In Opera I use two at the moment, none of them I could call essential.

zalex108
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zalex108

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Well, I could understand your opinion.


About Opera, I don't understand his strategy...

zalex108
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zalex108

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http://www.opera.com/blogs/desktop/2014/11/feedback-feedback-feedback/

A post pointing to Suggestions box will be need it. ¬¬ :D

leocg
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leocg

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About Opera, I don't understand his strategy...

What strategy exactly? On what?

zalex108
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zalex108

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leocg
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leocg

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What strategy exactly? On what?

https://forums.opera.com/discussion/comment/15262383#Comment_15262383

Well, just because something has been requeste doesn't mean that it should be implemented because of all the reasons already listed.

BTW: http://www.opera.com/blogs/desktop/2017/04/opera-developer-46-0-2567-0-update/#comment-3264703977

nekomajin
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nekomajin

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They always say security is a priority, but still, I have to use an extension if I want to have an overview of site permissions. The Chrome solution is very good. They could use it, at least least until it gets a priority.

zalex108
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zalex108

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Well, just because something has been requeste doesn't mean that it should be implemented because of all the reasons already listed. BTW: http://www.opera.com/blogs/desktop/2017/04/opera-developer-46-0-2567-0-update/#comment-3264703977

That option it's a must to keep a clean UI.
You don't need to see some extension icons rarely clicked but used, and I don't want to hide the icon from toolbar and spend time every time I need to modify something on it.
Also reorder extensions and keep them organized it's an aspect of good behavior.

Some requests are extremely easy to understand.

leocg
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leocg

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That option it's a must to keep a clean UI.

Also reorder extensions and keep them organized it's an aspect of good behavior.

Maybe for those users who use a bunch of extensions, but how many they are? It worths the efforts to implement such feature?

There are many questions that need to be answered before adding or changing something.

You don't need to see some extension icons rarely clicked but used, and I don't want to hide the icon from toolbar and spend time every time I need to modify something on it.

And how that feature would help on that?

zalex108
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zalex108

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You don't need to see some extension icons rarely clicked but used, and I don't want to hide the icon from toolbar and spend time every time I need to modify something on it.

And how that feature would help on that?

Hide + Reordering

leocg
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leocg

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Hide + Reordering

But you can already hide them.

zalex108
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zalex108

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This is not what I mean,

image
 

it's useful just for very few of them.

I mean this

concretable
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concretable

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    There is a nice Opera extension called "Policy Control" which allows one to make exceptions for 11 preference settings for individual sites.

    zalex108
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    zalex108

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    Nice,
    I have another extensions but i'll try that too.

    BTW, I prefer that kind of option menus built in the browser itself.