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Vivaldi

  • I installed it and I notice the interface is pretty similar to Maxthon.
    
    The interface is entirely written in HTML. That makes it incredibly flexible. You can basically do anything you want with it.   
    

    Opera interface is written in what?

    No, not Opera's. You were talking about Vivaldi.
    It's written in HTML5. So it's the same like a webpage. Thus you can e.g. style Vivaldi's interface with CSS :ninja:

    Opera forces many users to install extensions

    That's true. If you're a power user (and most of us were), you can't live without them. However, I personally don't feel it's such a bad idea to provide a solid base that can be extended with extensions. It keeps the browser slim and fast.
    Having said that, making people rely on extensions, but not providing a highly flexible API as well as giving options for the most basic things that can't be done with extensions, is very poor.
    I appreciated it very much when Opera announced they'd move to Chromium. Opera 15 was the solid base that I expected. But from there on, it looks like Opera and I are heading different directions with our expectations. And I guess most of us former power users feel the same about it... So if Vivaldi can eventually do what I had expected from Opera to be done, be my guest. Time will tell... :wait:

  • What code Opera uses in interface? That what I meant.

    Vivaldi is a good browser for power users, but for beginners it is not. Sometimes a person just to browse on the web and don't need a software with a lot of features that does not need.

  • Opera does use native chrome provided by the OS.

  • UI is very sluggish.

  • Yeah, it's lagging pretty badly, but it's a tech preview after all... 😉

  • I was very exited on first speculations about new browser more than a year ago..and now... I don't know what to think 😕

    It is closest to old Opera, but in the meantime (year since), I've been testing lots of browsers, and there is a whole bunch of them, usually chromiums from Asia, that had similar features (SB, recent tabs trash...) and most of them failed (abandonware).
    Vivaldi is one of those skinned chromiums, no doubt. And that's not a bad thing.
    How good it is, depends on a developers vision.
    Opera's "vision beyond O15" kinda sucked. They didn't capitalized their independent window layer (and that should be a game changer).
    Instead they were running around in circles with bookmarks and SD (and no sync), and selling stories how they won't copy old features.
    Seriously, wtf?!? :faint:

    Jon's vision was simple.
    Mimic as much as possible of Presto features in chromium environment.
    And result is, even at this stage, everyone's thrilled with new Vivaldi browser, while spitting on Opera for abandoning power users.
    I kinda felt sorry for O-dev's yesterday, reading tons of disqus mail notifications, because every twelve year old troll in the known universe had to say something about new browser on Opera blog.

    Vivaldi does looks like our beloved old Opera 😉 but is it gonna be a good browser, we shall see... :sherlock:
    Like pig and German boy said, it's very sluggish, but I don't think it's because of preview build only.
    That HTML5 bling-bling UI shares same resources (single-threaded) with all pages, very noticeable when loading multiple tabs at once.

  • Personally I like the idea of the browser, as I've hoped all the time for a good alternative to Opera 12, but I have to criticize one thing:

    It seems to be highly demanding for the hardware. I mean, I'm using a pretty good multimedia notebook, and I can use Opera 12 without any problems.
    But Vivaldi causes high cpu usage, resulting in the fan getting pretty loud every 10 minutes or so, which is very disturbing, and also in the fan being turned on the whole time.

    This gets even more disturbing when I'm watching Youtube videos. Like in chrome, the html5 player is used. And this is awfully demanding, even some of my games use less cpu time. Therefore my fan gets into top gear and I'm not able to watch a video in fullscreen and 720p without being disturbed by my fan. Even when watching 360p without fullscreen, my fan turns on. In Opera 12 with flash I can watch 1440p videos and my fan turns on only a tiny little bit. This is similar in Firefox.
    Comparison of watching a 360p video in fullscreen:

    • Opera 12 with Flash: 3-5% cpu-usage
    • Vivaldi with Html5: 9-13% usage, that's 2-3 times more!

    Of course this could be fully the fault of the html5 player. What do you think?

    But when I'm comparing the normal browsing, Vivaldi still is much more demanding, like I already said.

    Overall this confirms my general bad impression of chromium-based browser. I just don't like their general behavior.

    So personally I will continue using Opera 12, with Firefox support, when certain sites aren't displaying properly. But this still keeps in reasonable limits, so my combinations will still do the trick for some time... 😉

    But of course I will watch how Vivaldi develops. Maybe these efficiency issues are completely fixable and not caused by the software architecture itself.

  • Because Vivaldi is based on HTML5, does it mean that hardware acclereation of HTML5 can rise Vivaldi performance very high?

  • Comparing the time line of both the browsers (Opera 15+ and Vivaldi) and the features incorporated it looks like Vivaldi would turn out to be a good browser.

    Some of the useful features still missing after almost 2 years with new Opera but implemented in Vivaldi in Tech Preview itself.
    Site specific preferences
    Import from Old Opera (including bookmarks)
    Panels
    Closed Tab trash icon
    Bookmarks (Opera did few experiments with this one and the current one also lacks some options)

    Will have to see how Vivaldi shapes in coming days and months...
    Yandex browser has also done some nice innovations which is also based on same engine
    Another competitor coming up is Spartan (or the new IE).

    Back to Opera.... Another question to be thought about is... Has Opera set the priorities right? It's clear that new Opera does not want to mimic the old one but is something like closed tab icon that difficult to implement that it has not been considered yet?

    Opera had a pretty good user base established over the years which could have carried onto new version with providing some most used features and not just stick to bare minimums which has pissed off lot of users to switch to other browsers.

  • Otter is closer to old Opera than Vivaldi. Vivaldi is a better Chropera, but still Chropera.

  • Otter is closer to old Opera than Vivaldi. Vivaldi is a better Chropera, but still Chropera.

    That's absolutely right!

  • Comparison of watching a 360p video in fullscreen:
    Opera 12 with Flash: 3-5% cpu-usage
    Vivaldi with Html5: 9-13% usage, that's 2-3 times more!
    Of course this could be fully the fault of the html5 player. What do you think?
    But when I'm comparing the normal browsing, Vivaldi still is much more demanding, like I already said.

    Chromium is much more demanding than Presto, pure and simple. Try the same comparison only between Opera 12 and Opera 27 and see what you think.

  • Looks very promising. It's what should have happened with opera, add customization to a mainstream rendering engine. It may harm performance to have all features and UI in javascript, but it also bring the ability to affix opera, erm Vivaldi, to any rendering engine. I think it is funny that a browser created only a few months ago is already better than new opera.

    Their website is horrible though, and doesn't render well in presto. Looks like a designer ate up all the fad mobile/metro styles and pooped them out onto a web server.

  • Just to keep perspective, several things have happened and continuing to happen that should be kept in mind as these browsers are developed. Blink Opera was and continues to be viewed by users directly against the background of what existed in Opera 11 and 12. Those are the typical Opera browsers that Opera ASA moved away from, in many users' minds. The constraints of the chromium engine caused a major disruption to the browser's configurability and customizability, compared with what had previously been available to developers in Presto. And the results of the changes were immediately felt by users. The last two years have seen both the devs and users grappling with great adjustment in how things were done and why. Blink Opera has largely come of age constantly being compared against its older brother, Presto Opera.

    The Vivaldi browser is destined to be viewed against a background of both Blink Opera and Presto Opera, the former in terms of the here and now, the latter in terms of 'fondly remembered'. Vivaldi has the strategic design advantage of having quietly and carefully observed the unfolding of the Blink Opera saga and all the feedback and performance results of design choices made over the unfolding Blink versions. Vivaldi also is being intentionally designed from a more techno-user and suite-focused perspective than Blink Opera (which has been and continues to be designed more directly for a broad-market, browser-only appeal). Both approaches have their business-perspective risks and rewards, and both approaches will follow somewhat different paths as each tries to find some sweet spot held in the vision of each player. But Vivaldi will grow up being constantly compared to both its older brothers, Presto and Blink Opera, and birth order matters in how things grow up.

    Regardless, there remain significant architectural challenges in building various kinds of configurability and features on a chromium foundation. There's no guarantee that the Vivaldi devs will surmount them sufficiently better than have the Opera devs in order to fully please those critical users looking fondly back at Presto Opera days. What we've seen thus far is merely a Tech Preview version of Vivaldi. It holds tantalizing promise. But the real design labor lies ahead, because expectations are always higher for a stable version than a Tech Preview. Where expectations are higher, criticism will be harsher.

  • Trying it myself right now (posting from Vivaldi ATM).

    Frankly, this tech preview is what O 15 should have been from day one.

    I can set my tabs to the bottom a-la Opera 12
    The zoom bar is back, as is the show/hide images button (no cached mode and it has to reload the page though 😕 )
    The bookmarks/mail/download bar is right there where it should be... though mail isn't there yet.
    Lots of features from the old Opera already implemented, like keyboard shortcut customization, ability to cycle tabs based on last use, not next in list, tab stacking. etc.

    It seems like a good start (although some serious bugs) towards reproducing the original Presto Opera with the Chromium engine. I likee :). I was getting tired of Firefox, and Opera 12 was getting too crufty to put up with WRT rendering modern HTML5 pages.

    I've been sad since I had to move away from Opera, but hopefully they keep readding features to Vivaldi... if so it'll be my new home browser.

  • It's written in HTML5. So it's the same like a webpage. Thus you can e.g. style Vivaldi's interface with CSS

    Also they can make Vivaldi a web app. So you can browse while you browse. Maybe as a Chrome extension?

  • Maybe as a Chrome extension?

    That's totally possible. If you actually look closely, you will notice that it is one.
    I also wrote a proof of concept some time ago... So a browser in your browser is nothing new. 😉

  • Agree blackbird71! It's also worth noting that if Opera had ceased to exist after v12, then the Opera Forum and Opera Blog wouldn't exist. This means that the negative reactions to the newer browser wouldn't have existed either. And I'm certain this Vivaldi browser has a lot to do with observing the negative reaction to Opera Blink and aiming to provide a browser for the nostalgic crowd.

    But the real design labor lies ahead, because expectations are always higher for a stable version than a Tech Preview. Where expectations are higher, criticism will be harsher.

    It's funny, over at the Opera Blogs, people are singing Vivaldi's praises, as if they've ascended to heaven or whatever. Plus some are already commenting on the lack of certain features!! I feel Vivaldi users will be a tough crowd to please over the next year.
    http://blogs.opera.com/desktop/2015/01/opera-27-computers-bookmarks-tabs-navigation-bar/

    So if Vivaldi can eventually do what I had expected from Opera to be done...

    As I said in a previous comment to a similar remark, you don't own Opera, which is free btw so stop with this 'what I had expected' remark. No-one, except Opera has any claim or rights to the features in Presto and it's certainly not Opera's duty to serve them to you. Opera have already stated they are not going to fully implement all of Presto's features (and will be creating some new ones). You now have this Vivaldi nostalgia project for that.

  • you don't own Opera, which is free btw so stop with this 'what I had expected' remark

    People are free to expect what they want. I had expected Opera to do it, but they didn't. Expecting sth. doesn't mean you're demanding it to happen. (Though I still do demand some features like tab stacking and private tabs and I'm free to do this as well ^^)

    it's certainly not Opera's duty to serve them to you

    Well, they can obviously do whatever they want, but they better start listening at some point for their own good...

  • ...but they better start listening at some point for their own good...

    Why? To satisfy a handful of people like you? Opera have already stated they want the browser to grow out of it's niche. And that's all Presto was, a niche browser loved by a handful of geeks/power users and largely ignored by browser testing web designers.

    Btw, I 'expected' Adobe to keep selling copies of their Creative Suite and they decided to force everyone to subscribe to it making it too costly for many. Expecting things to always remain as they are, especially with software, will only lead to disappointment.

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