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Jon von Tetzchner, Opera's founder and former CEO spoke to The Register

  • Originally posted by Krake:

    ...As for now (2013<) Opera ceased to be a standalone browser maker. Period.

    Calling Opera ASA now a "browser maker" is already a little bit of stretch.
    ...

    +1

  • Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    There are a couple of threads created by one-time posters and recently created accounts with rants that don't cite a single feature that they miss.

    Oh really.

    This forum, right?

    Let's make a quick tally based on topic titles.

    bookmarks
    bookmarks
    skins/appearance
    bookmarks
    bookmarks
    Link
    "disgruntled" -> non-descriptive title, but the content clearly says RSS, bookmarks, mail
    Linux
    bookmarks
    Menu bar
    That was just within the first twenty topics or so, and the others didn't relate to missing features (unless you count YouTube in HD as a missing feature). Feel free to continue the exercise by yourself.

    Not a single feature mentioned. 🙂

  • Originally posted by Krake:

    As for now (2013<) Opera ceased to be a standalone browser maker. Period.

    Calling Opera ASA now a "browser maker" is already a little bit of stretch.

    So what? How does that change anything said in this topic? They bought a couple of ad companies which already had their own employees that must have continued working now for Opera, it doesn't seem like people from the Desktop Team moved exactly.

    It looks like a company must limit to act only in specific areas you "allow" to please you, what's the logic of this?

    Originally posted by krake:

    However, good luck with the new shell for Google's rendering engines ("Opera can build on top of it...").

    They can and do build under it too. You might be aware of Opera contributions to Chromium/Blink.

  • Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    It looks like a company must limit to act only in specific areas you "allow" to please you, what's the logic of this?

    No, he's saying Opera is now more like an aftermarket body kit maker than like a car manufacturer.* Ads are completely irrelevant to the point.

    * Krake, please correct me if I'm unfairly interpreting your position.

  • Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    Look here, no mention of Discover: http://www.operasoftware.com/content-partners

    The revenue would come from the providers's content being featured on Discover, which the user will access through those devices. That particular page doesn't have to mention Discover by name, just spark interest. Details on how the content will be presented to the user comes later.

    Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    Read about the differences between Opera 12 and 19 for computers here

    Nah, read about them here. Opera 12 has some opportunities for improvement. Opera 19 is a blight upon the land.

  • So... at the end of this day, at the end of this thread, at the end of the Opera Community - nothing Opera has decided to do will have been changed, in spite of all the electrons being temporarily inconvenienced by the rendering of all the rhetoric, arguments, and opinion in these posts. Dissatisfied Old Opera users will still be dissatisfied, Opera's developers will keep on developing New Opera per their schedules, plans, strategies, and devblog feedback, stockholders will still own the company, and otherwise life will go on much as it always has. :rolleyes:

  • Originally posted by blackbird71:

    ... and otherwise life will go on much as it always has. :rolleyes:

    Yup. That's really the bottom line here. Nothing has changed and nothing will change. You either accept it or you move on. No other viable choice presents itself (and I don't consider remaining with a Presto version as viable...not in the long run). Sooner or later y'all gotta make a decision. Make it and get over it.

  • Originally posted by Frenzie:

    No, he's saying Opera is now more like an aftermarket body kit maker than like a car manufacturer.* Ads are completely irrelevant to the point.

    Exactly!
    I thought it was self-evident for anybody who's reading my post.

  • Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    Another quote I've shared countless times:
    "The switch to using Chromium was an engineering-led decision, not a management decision to cut costs. It allows us to get an engine that thousands of developers work on (including our own, and we commit changes back for any other browser to use), that is compatible with most big websites and that we can build on top of." - Bruce Lawson from Opera Software

    Bruce also said, "We took the decision that rather than paying engineers to maintain feature parity with other rendering engines, It seemed to be to us a much better way of using our resources, to take this open source rendering engine [WebKit], which is great, and then divert those engineers to do really cool sh*t".
    Source: http://www.acquia.com/resources/podcasts/acquia-podcast-73-opera-browser-goes-webkit

    Not sure what "cool sh*t" Opera has done since abandoning Presto, hell they can't even get bookmarks to work even with their freed up "resources", but to say that this wasn't a management decision to reduce cost is simply untrue. And they didn't just change the rendering engine, they changed their whole philosophy. From the rendering engine to the user interface, Opera 15+ is more of a copy of Chrome than an upgrade from Presto.

  • Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    Are Opera 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20 illusions?

    Why don't you ask some Linux users? Also, it should more read like Opera 0.x, 0.x, 0.x, 0.x, 0.x and 0.499 maybe as progress is slow and basic features are still missing for sure.

  • Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    ...I know it's weird because of course it could be monetized, but there are no sources to back that for some reason. You can only find wild guesses from angry whiners.

    wow...just wow
    This must be a new low even for this place.

  • Originally posted by Tradeofjane:

    to say that this wasn't a management decision to reduce cost is simply untrue.

    Well, why would Bruce lie? 🙂 Saying it came from engineering logically means it came from the management within engineering, but not from the company's overarching management. That makes his statement unnecessarily and perhaps misleadingly pedantic. (more)

    Originally posted by missingno:

    Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    Are Opera 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20 illusions?

    Why don't you ask some Linux users?

    Bravo!

  • Originally posted by Frenzie:

    Originally posted by Tradeofjane:

    to say that this wasn't a management decision to reduce cost is simply untrue.

    Well, why would Bruce lie? 🙂 Saying it came from engineering logically means it came from the management within engineering, but not from the company's overarching management. That makes his statement unnecessarily and perhaps misleadingly pedantic. (more)

    Bruce works in the Developer Relations Department at Opera, which is responsible for creating and nurturing the developer community while leveraging the total community resources towards the software vendor's goals. He also works in the the Web Standards Department at Opera Software, which explains why he's in favor of using Chromium. He's also wrong about this being an engineering-led decision as even he states that Opera made the decision rather than paying engineers to maintain feature parity with other rendering engines. Engineers aren't going to lead on a decision to put themselves out of a job. The move to piggybacking off of Chromium was a decision made by management, NOT engineering, in order to avoid paying to develop their own engine by using one that was already available and being worked on for free.

  • @rafaelluik

    Why would current Opera employees had more credibility than former?
    You really expect that Bruce, Haavard or CEO in some interview... gonna publicly say "well, we f***ed up"... ?
    I don't remember when application (exclude OS) disappointed so many users, and caused so many negative critics and comments all over the Net.

    And of top of that, communication from Opera side could be summarized in "we dong give a sh*t about users opinion".
    Bruce and Blazej tried to fix that last summer, after first (or second) wave of disappointment.
    But it's all left on attempt.

  • Originally posted by vux777:

    And of top of that, communication from Opera side could be summarized in "we dong give a sh*t about users opinion".
    Bruce and Blazej tried to fix that last summer, after first (or second) wave of disappointment.
    But it's all left on attempt.

    You call it "fix", I would call it damage control spin.

    You can't fix things with bla, bla, bla.
    Neither can you put somebody off for ever, not even the most naive.

  • Originally posted by Frenzie:

    Originally posted by missingno:

    Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    Are Opera 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20 illusions?

    Why don't you ask some Linux users?

    Bravo!

    So Linux users don't know that Opera 15+ exists? I didn't know they were so uninformed.

    Originally posted by vux777:

    Why would current Opera employees had more credibility than former?

    Why would the former have more credibility?? Please, why did you even care to write this?

    Originally posted by vux777:

    You really expect that Bruce, Haavard or CEO in some interview... gonna publicly say "well, we f***ed up"... ?

    But did they fu**** up? I suspect we won't see the number of users going down in the next quarters. Also, there's a long-term benefit of the switch that's worth the current situation.

    Originally posted by vux777:

    I don't remember when application (exclude OS) disappointed so many users, and caused so many negative critics and comments all over the Net.

    Are them all valid criticism? No. Bookmarks and Link are valid criticism IMO. Just shouting "it's a Chrome clone" or "I don't want to use extension for X" them move to another browser where you'll need to add a lot more extensions to add features to make it Opera-like are not.

    And the "critics" you mention that just yesterday didn't give a shit about Opera and its features and are clearly users of other browsers (easily discoverable by past articles / social media profiles)? Haha...

    Originally posted by vux777:

    And of top of that, communication from Opera side could be summarized in "we dong give a sh*t about users opinion".

    How so? Because a couple of users miss X then they should bring the browser to an insane level of features to be maintained again (and without even completely integrating the Chromium code / finishing to build the "solid foundation")? How is it going in suggesting features to Mozilla/Google/Microsoft/Apple teams?

  • Originally posted by Frenzie:

    Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    There are a couple of threads created by one-time posters and recently created accounts with rants that don't cite a single feature that they miss.

    Oh really.

    This forum, right?

    Let's make a quick tally based on topic titles.

    bookmarks
    bookmarks
    skins/appearance
    bookmarks
    bookmarks
    Link
    "disgruntled" -> non-descriptive title, but the content clearly says RSS, bookmarks, mail
    Linux
    bookmarks
    Menu bar
    That was just within the first twenty topics or so, and the others didn't relate to missing features (unless you count YouTube in HD as a missing feature). Feel free to continue the exercise by yourself.

    Not a single feature mentioned. 🙂

    You might want to tread the rest of my post. I said there's valid feedback also. You exaggerated bookmarks, among the threads there are other things. The point: they're already bringing bookmarks back but they also have other stuff to do. And it's obvious M2 won't come back. And it's obvious the Linux version will come. And it's obvious a menu bar would be the most useless feature to be implemented. Skinning doesn't fit as something that should be prioritized right now if implemented at all (BTW in that thread the user doesn't cite *what* he uses from the Appearance dialog and the subject quickly diverted to default search engine option, "it's a Chrome clone" and vague statements, and a person mentioned he wanted to personalize the size of the UI because of his hi-def display, well Opera is already working in providing proper HiDPI support).

  • Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    Why would the former have more credibility?? Please, why did you even care to write this?

    Discussing with you is like discussing with religious fanatic.... God did it

  • Originally posted by vux777:

    Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    Why would the former have more credibility?? Please, why did you even care to write this?

    Discussing with you is like discussing with religious fanatic.... God did it

    The same could be said for you. Just sayin. :p

  • Originally posted by rafaelluik:

    So Linux users don't know that Opera 15+ exists?

    At least some of them. As approximatly 5 billion people on earth don't know that Opera exists. Give or take one billion. -.-

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