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Why Use Opera?

  • @coffeelover Thank you. If Opera would like to employ me doing that sort of thing, they can contact me anytime! I prefer to work from home, though. ๐Ÿ™‚

    While I am here, let me add another reason why I prefer Opera over other browsers:

    Opera has built-in Cryptocurrency Mining Protection and Malware Blocking

    Other browsers force one to research/search for such protection via extensions. I know Opera has got me covered for this already, so it is one less headache/concern for me. I have enough headaches/concerns, already. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • @coffeelover wow exactly my feelings, i signed in just for this, Opera used to be something great, something special, now it's just a better Google Chrome.

  • I really tried to like Vivaldi this weekend over Opera because of my nostalgic feelings towards Jon Von Tetschner (one of the original founders of Opera, as I recall and the driving force behind Vivaldi today) and the most customizable and fun browser of all time, that being the Opera-Presto browser, but Vivaldi is just too buggy, yet. I won't go into the problems I have with Vivaldi entirely since this is an Opera forum, but Vivaldi still gets the occasional dead-canary page for me and the keyboard shortcuts/mouse gestures don't always work as advertised. The overload of options in Vivaldi in my opinion requires more upkeep and thus a tendency to be buggier. It is much more boggy/slow at loading pages for me here, also. Memory-efficiency is nowhere near Opera's at this point after another whirl with Vivaldi the past 2-3 days.

    Finally, one more feather in Opera's cap to think about is the nifty Ctrl-Spacebar option for a slick search through open tabs. It does this elegantly.

  • Much as I like Jon and all the other developers on Vivaldi, it just isn't there yet. And since the browser is basically a Chrome app, every major update to Chrome forces major revisions to Vivaldi's code and thus anything can break in the next update. (More so for internal builds of course, but public snapshots are only slightly better.) I run Opera Developer and almost never have to wonder if the next update is going to break something (except that they seem to be having trouble with Opera Sync, Vivaldi's sync is painless). Of course being a tester can be like that, but testing Opera is generally simple. It just works.

  • As it turns out, I don't really use Opera any more. I could not conform it to my work flow, and the Opera team were not at all interested in what I needed to do so, after the change to Blink.

    I do still keep a copy of the old Opera 12.18 installed in order to use the mail client, and I keep an eye on development, but that's it. No other browser available could adjust to my needs, either, until I ran into Vivaldi. So that is my default. It's a young browser yet, but it came right out of the gate with things I had been bugging the Opera team to restore, in terms of conformability, ever since the Blink change, and could not make any headway.

    The sale to the Chinese was the final nail in the coffin for Opera for me. The worst respecters of data privacy and intellectual property ever to grace the face of the planet cannot get my support, I'm afraid.

    So to each his own, I suppose. Contrary to the experience of @sgunhouse , I do not find Vivaldi at all buggy. Plus, it is the only browser in the world I can shape to my needs. So not to be a real downer, but "why use Opera?" I don't. I wish they could have retained my loyalty, but they were not interested in it.

  • @michaeljones: I was a dedicated user of the real Opera since ver. 5.01 (released in year 2000) up till version 12.18 - until it was a feature rich, customizable, well-integrated browsing suite based on Presto engine, being developed by the team of the founder Jรณn S. von Tetzchner.

    When 17 years of work on the real Opera was ditched and new pseudo-Opera was started being developed, with close to zero features compared to the original, all the good reasons to use it disappeared. The new owners and CEO said they will rebuild the features but I knew they lied. Their clear intention was no longer to make a great browser, but to make more money, limiting costs as much as possible.

    I was thrilled that Opera was reborn under name Vivaldi with Jรณn S. von Tetzchner as the captain and owner again. I use it since its first alpha version and it is well polished already with lot's of great, well-integrated features (much more than pseudo-Opera has) and being improved actively both in terms of big features as well as polishing of details.

    I need a browser that gives me full control without compromises, with plenty of useful, well-integrated features for high usability to work efficiently and conveniently, and which I can trust on privacy. These are the very reasons why I do not use the pseudo-Opera but Vivaldi, which continues the spirit of the real Opera.

  • @wojcieche I don't think there is any need to use a derogatory term like "pseudo-Opera". If you don't like the "new" Opera then simple: don't use it. Period. But to denigrate Opera does nothing to enhance Vivaldi at least in my eyes. As for Vivaldi not being buggy, a simple perusal of their forums suggests otherwise. It is still not there for many users although I'm glad it's working for you and ayespy. Furthermore, there are many (probably most) who see the direction Vivaldi is taking as a giant leap backwards to the 90's when the "suite" was king. Most users today (by virtue of user statistics) do not want a browser with everything built into it and particularly with a built-in mail client. That is something that very few users (i.e. ayespy) need for their "work flow" or so they claim. I imagine that if Vivaldi disappeared overnight these same people would adjust their work flow to another browser and within a short time be right where they are now. We seem to have that ability to adapt as human beings.. Vivaldi is built for those who want infinite customizability (most users do not) and infinite tinkering (most users couldn't care less). It will never gain much following other than the few who desire these things. The tech world is changing at an incredible rate and the way we use browsers, email and computers in general is going to be completely changed within a few years according to most tech websites I follow. Artificial intelligence will play a key role in making these changes and little players like Vivaldi will be unable to keep apace. People want all their devices synched.... they want smaller devices... more portable devices... pocketable devices. .. devices they can speak to. While I admit that I'm unhappy with the new ownership of Opera, in my view it is in a better position to succeed based upon much deeper pockets. And I suspect with the increasing rise of Google Chrome within a year most users will have switched to it regardless of privacy concerns. Those who are lean and quick to conform will be able to make the transition. Bear in mind that web developers are coding almost exclusively for Chromium based browsers (Chrome, Brave, Vivaldi, Opera, Edge shortly) but when a giant like Google Chrome makes changes, these developers jump to make them as well. Can a small, insignificant company like Vivaldi keep abreast? I seriously doubt it. It would surprise me if we see this browser still in development three years from now. Opera? Yes, based upon its potential in the Chinese market.

  • Many of us old Opera users have no problem with the suite, even if Mozilla abandoned it long before Opera switched to Blink. And of course, you don't have to use features you don't need/want - as in old Opera they will only add a minimal amount to overall size and not use resources if you don't enable them. Not using software because it has stuff you don't want is silly - I mean, I don't really need the VPN, right? I can't say as I've used 90% of the features in any word processor I ever used, even when I wrote my dissertation. Sorry, doesn't follow. Any software should do what you need, not do stuff you don't want it to do, and generally not be in the way. I can't complain about what it can do as long as it doesn't do it when I don't want it to.

  • @coffeelover Oh, golly. I suppose now that I've chimed in, I can't just let this lie.

    I used Olde Opera as long as @wojcieche . There was a reason for that. It provided something(s) no other browser did. That ended with Opera Blink.

    While I am not in favor of derogatory terms, I also am not in favor of subtle/covert slagging-off of a competitor.

    Vivalidi is bug-free for certain use patterns, and buggy for others - just as Opera is.

    It's true most see the return to an opulent suite as a leap backwards. For those who disagree, there is Vivaldi. It exists only because we exist - those who feel confined by bare-bones simplicity. Vivaldi was invented for us, not for you. I don't see that as a disqualifier.

    "...something that very few users (i.e. ayespy) need for their 'work flow' or so they claim." I will thank you not to accuse me of lying. If Opera, which I used for fourteen years, kept up with my needs, I would have stuck with it. I did not move to a new platform for imaginary or fictitious reasons. K? K. And Vivaldi was targeted at, proportionally, "very few users." It is not intended to compete with the "big boys" in the market, but rather to satisfy the needs of users that the market, in all its wisdom, abandoned.

    "...These same users would adjust their workflow to another browser within a short time..." I tried for two years to do that with the new, Blink Opera. What do you define as a short time?

    "Vivaldi is built for those who want infinite customizability..." Bingo. Are we not also valid human beings? As part of a minority, is it our fate to be ignored, discarded, or forced to "adapt?" While I have a choice, I will choose.

    "Can a small, insignificant company like Vivaldi keep abreast?" Why, yes. For the last four years it has kept abreast. Its acceptance and economic vigor have nearly doubled in the last year.

    "It would surprise me if we see this browser still in development three years from now." Prepare to be surprised.

    While not using terms to which you object, you nonetheless "politely" slag off a newcomer to the market, doing exactly what it was intended to do. Please, feel free to ignore it. It's not relevant to your life, apparently, and no concern of yours.

  • @sgunhouse Exactly. Well said.

  • @coffeelover: "pseudo-Opera" is not a derogatory term, but a very, very, very well deserved one after a hostile takeover of the company against the founder and changing direction followed by 17 years by the founder by 180 degrees, against interests of its users, solely for the (expected) benefit of investors.
    Going further it was arrogant, shameless chutzpah explicitly intended to mislead users, to call the new Chromium browser Opera 15 as if it was a straightforward update to Presto Opera 12.x. Which it was not. Sure, the owners of the company could do what they wanted but they decided to do the above, so they have their consequences. If they called the new browser a new name and version 1.0, being honest with what they did, I would not use "pseudo" prefix. I hope this is clear for you now.

    Making a suite is not a step backwards, but a step in the only proper direction (considering also that UI is clean and consistent - and it is in Vivaldi). And interestingly, it is not subjective, it can sure be proven mathematically that you are wrong on saying suite is a step backwards - because having a well-integrated, customizable suite with lot's of useful features provides higher usability and allows to browse faster, easier, more efficiently compared to a browser stripped down from features with only some features added inconsistently by extensions, making the browser a Frankenstein. Switching tabs by Ctrl+Tab, Quick Commands, search engine nicknames as just 3 small examples, are self-explanatory in terms of how they make browsing faster and more convenient.

    I have a saying - Vivaldi is for users who demand/expect more - and the more you demand, the more you will appreciate the features and level of customizability provided by Vivaldi. BUT even if someone is a basic user and demands little, he will still lose nothing by using Vivaldi, but will get some small little things like real progress bar with counter in the URL field which will clearly tell him (unlike spinning wheels) whether the page is loading or is dead; the tab Trash in the corner will allow him reopen tabs or even windows with all history easily; and with time he may discover a few more things that will make his browsing faster, easier and more convenient. And it is surely easier to discover something that is build-in, than go out and look for clumsy extensions. Relying 100% on extensions to integrate functionality was always a broken by design paradigm for me from this and a few other reasons (like security, performance).

    Your portentous predictions against Vivaldi do not have much real basis, they seem to be just effect of reading too much hype news about AI. I see that you are unable to explain your point - why and how browsing is supposed to change drastically due to AI and why Vivaldi is supposed not to keep up with it. No matter what AI does, I will still want to go to sites I do want to go and will do it on my own. And Vivaldi is synced... will soon be mobile... portable... on small devices... - so how is Vivaldi not keeping up with the modern trends..? Saying integrated mail client makes no sense just because nobody else is doing it proves your lack of arguments on the matter and that you do not understand what being visionary means. Following the crowd is not a way to add unique value my friend...

  • I use Opera simply because it (still) fits my needs. When it's no longer true, I will look for another browser to use.

    I guess I can say that it's valid for all software that I use.

  • @wojcieche said in Why Use Opera?:

    Ctrl+Tab

    I meant RMB+scroll but cannot edit anymore to correct it.

  • @sgunhouse I understand that but the "fact" remains... most users don't want a suite. And that is the bottom line and the reason why Vivaldi will never really take off. It's been designed for a very small niche and therefore has this built-in propensity for future failure. I still say that within a few years we'll find Vivaldi a curiosity of the past. Opera has a much better opportunity for growth for the simple reason that it has money behind it along with a much greater potential for growth.

  • @wojcieche Psuedo-Opera most certainly is derogatory or you would not have used it. Facts speak for themselves and you're denying them. Vivaldi's days are numbered unless they find a way to make money to keep them afloat. Perhaps charging users for the suite might give them more time but in the end... without enough users they'll fail.

  • @ayespy Why do you find it imperative that you come over to the Opera forum and trumpet the wonders of Vivaldi? If you like such a backward suite... great. But why denigrate Opera in the Opera forum? Would you appreciate a bunch of Opera users coming over to Vivaldi's forum and ridiculing it? I doubt it.

  • @coffeelover And if present trends continue, Vivaldi will have plenty of users to keep it afloat. Next you will be telling us that Harley Davidson will soon go out of business because too few people buy its product. A Harley isn't for everyone - but it's for enough people that the company's future is assured.

  • @ayespy Why do you find it imperative that you come into Opera's house and preach the wonders of another browser? Vivalid? Big deal. I don't want it and every person with whom I'm acquainted doesn't want it. It's a niche product for a very small percentage of people who love to tinker. Period. Go and enjoy your backward suite. And good luck to you.

  • @coffeelover said in Why Use Opera?:

    Why do you find it imperative that you come over to the Opera forum and trumpet the wonders of Vivaldi?

    I don't find it imperative. Truth told, the comment by @sgunhouse drew me here. Knowing him from the Vivaldi community, I was surprised to see it, and a little taken aback.

    If you like such a (redacted insult) suite... great.

    Yes - I think it's great, too.

    But why denigrate Opera in the Opera forum?

    I didn't denigrate Opera. I did express my frustration at their path, but I suppose I'm still a bit mad at them for abandoning me. I have never done so on the Chrome or Firefox forums, but then I never cared about them, nor thought they cared about me. You know, "there's no fanatic like a convert." I also have nothing bad to say about women I never knew. A lover who jilted me, however...

    Would you appreciate a bunch of Opera users coming over to Vivaldi's forum and ridiculing it? I doubt it.

    It happens more than you would imagine. I see it regularly. I tolerate it fine. It's a signal that Vivaldi has some gaps to fill.

    By the way, I am a coffee addict. What sort of brew do you favor?

  • @ayespy Okay. You're being reasonable so I should as well. I like Seattle's best.. dark brew. It keeps me on my toes when my wife is looking for me. ๐Ÿ˜‰

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