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Opera 20 - Another unhappy loyal supporter

  • @samkook
    I agree with what you are saying, though i wouldn't say there's no customization in Opera 20 wihout extensions. There's less, though, for sure. With the Opera Presto browser, there wasn't much need for extensions, as you so rightly note. That's why I asked the poster -- who complained about the lack of customization (but in the abstract) -- what he wanted to do with the context menu. Anyone who complains in the abstract needs to be asked which feature they use and want. What are they worried about. They may not be worried about what you are.. This issue (as to what browser is best for a person) cannot be argued in the abstract. What's best for the poster cannot be looked at without knowing more from him, because there may be an extension, or a feature in opera 20 OF WHICH HE IS UNAWARE that meets his needs. I mean, I still hear people saying you cannot bookmark in Opera 20, though the assertion is beyond ludicrous. There's more bookmarking possibilities with Opera 20 than with Opera 12. Some people say you can't easily iin Opera 20 open links or bookmarks in new tabs. But it turns out that you can. You can even switch focus to it immediately. Easily. You can do a lot with search engines with Opera 20, and even more with extensions (that may well make it safer for browsing than it was before with Opera 12).
    And one more modest thought. Beneath the surface, for many users, something else may well factor in, or should, perhaps, be thought about. Opera has made a decision to work on opera 20 (Blink), not on Opera 12 (Presto). Opera 12 development is frozen. (There's even a concern about how much in security updates for Opera 12 will be looked at by Opera or provided in the future). Opera 20 development is being heavily furthered through research and new releases.. Surely, a user, in factoring in all the pluses and minuses for his particular needs, will consider whether he'd rather browse with a product whose development is totally frozen, or with a product that is presently being heavily researched and developed.
    If the balance were relatively close, I know how I would come out on that. I'd rather use the product that has a clear development future.

  • I agree with what you are saying, though i wouldn't say there's no customization in Opera 20 wihout extensions. There's less, though, for sure. With the Opera Presto browser, there wasn't much need for extensions, as you so rightly note. That's why I asked the poster -- who complained about the lack of customization (but in the abstract) -- what he wanted to do with the context menu. Anyone who complains in the abstract needs to be asked which feature they use and want. What are they worried about. They may not be worried about what you are.. This issue (as to what browser is best for a person) cannot be argued in the abstract. What's best for the poster cannot be looked at without knowing more from him, because there may be an extension, or a feature in opera 20 OF WHICH HE IS UNAWARE that meets his needs. I mean, I still hear people saying you cannot bookmark in Opera 20, though the assertion is beyond ludicrous. There's more bookmarking possibilities with Opera 20 than with Opera 12. Some people say you can't easily iin Opera 20 open links or bookmarks in new tabs. But it turns out that you can. You can even switch focus to it immediately. Easily. You can do a lot with search engines with Opera 20, and even more with extensions (that may well make it safer for browsing than it was before with Opera 12).
    And one more modest thought. Beneath the surface, for many users, something else may well factor in, or should, perhaps, be thought about. Opera has made a decision to work on opera 20 (Blink), not on Opera 12 (Presto). Opera 12 development is frozen. (There's even a concern about how much in security updates for Opera 12 will be looked at by Opera or provided in the future). Opera 20 development is being heavily furthered through research and new releases.. Surely, a user, in factoring in all the pluses and minuses for his particular needs, will consider whether he'd rather browse with a product whose development is totally frozen, or with a product that is presently being heavily researched and developed.
    If the balance were relatively close, I know how I would come out on that. I'd rather use the product that has a clear development future.

  • It's true that we need to know what each user really want since there may be a way to get it, but, personally, I think customization in the abstract is an actual feature.

    Forget all the specific features I listed, the first thing I want in a web browser is the ability to set it up the way I want and find the most efficient. It's the reason I stuck with opera for all those years(since just before it became free, v3 I think it was) even though it always had the worst compatibility of all browsers with website since many of them even went as far as blocking it even though it worked fine. It's also the reason I'm still using v12 and will keep using it most likely until I have no choice but to stop even though I know the security is probably very lacking and many website I frequent do not work properly with it.

    I simply want to have a choice in which features to activate or deactivate, whatever it may be or where to put it on the interface so it best suit my needs or how it should react when I do a specific action or being able to manipulate and store links however I prefer. Simply(well, I know it's really not that simple to achieve in real life) being able to do all that(and loading webpages properly) would make it my perfect browser, even with no other extra features.

    Personally, I couldn't care less if it load webpages a couple of seconds faster or if it has a nicely looking interface, as long as I can use it in a way I'm comfortable with.

    Edit: Yes, I saw the sessions extension too, I haven't installed it though because I don't need it for the very little usage of v20 I do since it doesn't meet my basic needs yet.

    As for the new speed dial, it's not a bad thing at least, but it's not good either in my opinion so I do agree to disagree with you on that.

    In a perfect world, I would also like to use the product with a development future, but since it's not usable enough for me, I simply can't, it's not even a choice.

  • Here's a Sessions Manager for you for Opera 20. I added it to my earlier post, but you may not notice that.

    https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/session-manager/bbcnbpafconjjigibnhbfmmgdbbkcjfi

    It may be that Opera 12 is best for you. If so, then no need to change. I think probably most of what you want would carry over well to Opera 20. There's far more ability to store links in Opera 20 than in Opera 12.. Plus, it would be a lot safer (the browsing, the security updates, the extensions out there to protect the privacy of searches, etc). As for the interface, there's tons that can be done via extension. But you have to do the work of the looking and testing for you. Most people don't want to change from what they are comfortable. And it's not unreasonable -- if you are happy with Opera 12 -- to stay with it (and not worry about looking for extensions (smile) even if the browser is not being developed. Personally, I enjoy the extension stores.

  • I did notice it, I also edited my previous one to reflect that.

    It's true that there is tons that can be done with extensions, but, as you're aware from the thread I started yesterday, even by doing the research, I couldn't even do the 3 basic things I need for simple usage of the browser(I'm crossing my fingers with v21 for one of them though) so there's pretty much no point in trying to find a fix for all the less important stuff.

    Storing links is indeed better in v20 with extensions, but I haven't found anything satisfying enough to "store" the open ones(tabs) which is the most important thing.

    I'm fully open to change which is why I keep using(even though it's limited) v20 on my HTPC and come back to the forum once in a while to see if there's a way to do what I need, but I haven't had any luck so far. I tried many different way to group tabs when I tried to switch to firefox since I didn't want to be stuck with a dead browser, but I found nothing that worked well enough, even after trying them for a few days.

    I'm not very happy with v12, it's been declining in quality and features(a lot were added that made things worse, without any way to disable them) since somewhere in v9 in my opinion(except for the speed dial that came with v10 which forced me to update anyway), but it's still, sadly, the best option I've found.

    The security is worrying me which is why I've beefed up my router by adding an antivirus and some filtering directly to it, but, as I said, v20 is simply too early in its development for the usage I need so I don't have much of a choice. It's either take longer to do stuff and hate the way it behaves most of the time and be more secure or continue to use a work flow I'm comfortable with and be careful about the websites I visit.

  • Check the other thread. I found a way to get the Control Z feature (to undo a closed tab) in Opera 20. My friend, everything is there if one just looks. :))))

    I'm disappointed about the Sessions Manager extension. I thought it looked perfect for your needs, but I understand what you're saying. You don't want to focus on it in Opera 20 till you solve the rest of your problems. Still, I found you Control Z AND a Sessions Manager. I'm tired tonight. I surrender. But remember the motto: it's all there for those who look.

  • I just replied on that other thread and it would seem that I'm back to square one with 4 problems instead of 3 if I start using extensions.

    You've been very helpful though and I very much appreciate all of your efforts so far and don't want you to be discouraged, but it's been looking worse since I started looking closer at it since I now have problems I didn't know I had before.

  • No you're not dead. I posted in that other thread that you can eliminate the automatic chrome updates. 🙂 Piece of cake.

  • Yeah, I just saw, things are looking up once again, thanks a lot for this.

    Edit: looks like I thanked you too fast since it doesn't actually work for opera, only for chrome so I'm taking back my lots of thanks and only giving you a normal thanks for the trouble I'm giving you :p

  • It's true that we need to know what each user really want since there may be a way to get it, but, personally, I think customization in the abstract is an actual feature.
    Forget all the specific features I listed, the first thing I want in a web browser is the ability to set it up the way I want and find the most efficient. It's the reason I stuck with opera for all those years(since just before it became free, v3 I think it was) even though it always had the worst compatibility of all browsers with website since many of them even went as far as blocking it even though it worked fine. It's also the reason I'm still using v12 and will keep using it most likely until I have no choice but to stop even though I know the security is probably very lacking and many website I frequent do not work properly with it.
    I simply want to have a choice in which features to activate or deactivate, whatever it may be or where to put it on the interface so it best suit my needs or how it should react when I do a specific action or being able to manipulate and store links however I prefer. Simply(well, I know it's really not that simple to achieve in real life) being able to do all that(and loading webpages properly) would make it my perfect browser, even with no other extra features.
    Personally, I couldn't care less if it load webpages a couple of seconds faster or if it has a nicely looking interface, as long as I can use it in a way I'm comfortable with.
    Edit: Yes, I saw the sessions extension too, I haven't installed it though because I don't need it for the very little usage of v20 I do since it doesn't meet my basic needs yet.
    As for the new speed dial, it's not a bad thing at least, but it's not good either in my opinion so I do agree to disagree with you on that.
    In a perfect world, I would also like to use the product with a development future, but since it's not usable enough for me, I simply can't, it's not even a choice.

    +1
    Especially the comments about choice and speed.

  • I'll add my voice to the chronicle of failure that is ver 15+ as well. No menus, no bookmarks, no preferences, forced SpeedDial (of which I'm not a fan), seemingly no provision for changing (or even setting-up) the homepage. If I wanted my computer to be a phone I wouldn't have bought a computer. And to add another insult to the situation, it appears they've moved ver 12 downloads to a server from 1999 (20k/s? Really?). Or maybe there are just so many people downloading the old version that the server is overloaded. Right.

    Opera used to be a trend-setter which everyone else tried to copy - now they seem to be taking other people's bad ideas and making them worse. I would (and do) use early ver 12 above any other browser on the market because of customization and efficiency. But the newer versions? FF's bookmarks may be a mess, but at least they work. I honestly don't understand why someone would intentionally take a good, useful piece of software and make it less useful than the products with which they're trying to compete. They even somehow managed to make it worse than Chrome, which is really saying something. So I guess that's that - the end of an era. I'd held out hope that they'd eventually come to their senses and start producing a useable piece of software again but I'm giving up. I'll use 12 until it'll no longer handle whatever horrors are planned for future HTML revisions, but after that it looks like Firefox unless someone else steps in. I guess this is what happens when you grasp desperately for market share at the expense of logic and sanity (and actual users), and it has to stop somewhere.

  • @sesquipedalian

    What you're saying is a lot of nonsense. You say, "no bookmarks. My man, you are jesting Opera 20 is absolutely not a browser without bookmarks. Where do you come up with something like that. That's a lot of millarky. Absolute, and total. Opera 20 has tons and tons of bookmarking -- from in the Speed Dial (with folders), to the Personal bookmarks toolbar to, Stash to bookmarking extensions in both the Opera and Chrome extension stores. It has more bookmarking possibilities than probably any browser on the market, and cerainly more than IE, Firefox, and Chrome (all of which I have on my computer and tested). I'll take Opera 20 for bookmarking any day. I can listen to and understand other gripes, but this one is beyond ridiculous.

    You say no "menu" or "preferences." Now click on the Opera tab in the far left, and you get your menus. Go to settings, and you have a lot of preferences. You can set up a home page in lieu of the Speed dial. On Settings, browser, Startup, put a check in either the pages where you left off, or in specific pages that you can make your home page. While I can't explain how to do it I understand you can make your home page even something based on a location in your computer.

    Look, either browse in Opera 12, or chose any another browser. There are legitimate things that a person might prefer in Opera 12 over Opera 20. Opera 20 is a different product. I can tell you all the fine things, I like about Opera 20, which I do think is a terrific browser, but I'm not going to waste more time on you. We've heard this general type of basically "whining" post so many times before that you are wasting the time of the forum with it.

  • I'll use 12 until it'll no longer handle whatever horrors are planned for future HTML revisions, but after that it looks like Firefox unless someone else steps in.

    Stick with Opera 12 and be happy. I know that I am content with Opera 20 so I plan to continue with it. Have a good one.

  • @lem729 maybe he did not use the new Opera, everyone that used can find menus, bookmarks, preferences. The new Speed Dial in Opera 15+ is the best.

  • Opera 20 is a joke and until it improves I will never use it again!

  • No need to post empty ;))) blather. Many users enjoy. Others prefer Opera 12.16. It's all based on one's need and personal prefernce. Opera 20 is fast, innovative, renders sites better than Opera 12, and I find it super. Each to his own. Have a wonderfu, day, Wyzard!

  • Opera 20 is fast, innovative, renders sites better than Opera 12

    You mean except for this forum who is rendered better with opera 12 🙂

  • Do you think? It's close, perhaps.

  • The posts with a new replies don't have a dark gray background on v20. Not a big deal, but enough to say it's not renderer properly.

  • What I really do not understand is why those of us who hate Opera with Blink are considered anti-progress, old-world-advocaters and evil conservatives. I love progress. I really would love to see Opera progress, but here is what Opera Blink / Next / New engine / etc. has brought us:

    • no 64-bit version
    • simpler yet less useful bookmarks
    • NO OPERA LINK
    • no customer support from Opera

    And these lacking features are why we (or at least me) loved Opera in first place. Take these out, and it does not deserve to be called Opera any more. Also I do not see the point in making a very ill copy of Chrome with way less features. If I wanted Chrome, I would install Chrome. Which is not a browser, but a spy-software. But to have a dumb version of Chrome with a red O on it? Why would I? It makes no sense. And not because I would be against progress. I am against meaningless stuff - especially with a very reduced feature-set.

    But don't worry! No Opera developer, customer service, officer, marketing or sales person will ever read your comments. Not connected to Opera Next, but in the meantime of launching Opera Next they removed all customer support contact possibilities, help desk, Facebook send message feature, etc.

    So: we can fume as much as we like, but they do not pay attention to us. Looks like that customers are no longer important.

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