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Opera 20 - Another unhappy loyal supporter

  • Might make a difference -- that you're using Windows 8.(And I think Samkook is using Windows 7). I did adjust Menu and Message Box in the Personalization feature of Windows 7, and it worked great, but that should cover all browsers. So why should the address and icons in Firefox be so much smaller than in Opera 21?

    Now leushino, you seem to have a problem in the opposite direction. I don't use Windows 8, but here's something you can look at and see if it helps you adjust stuff a little -- though I think I'd stay away from the registry editor. This link relates to Windows 8 and 8.1.

    http://www.askvg.com/how-to-access-advanced-appearance-settings-option-to-change-text-size-in-windows-8/

    Here's the forum discussion for Windows 7. https://forums.opera.com/topic/2661/version-20-21-increase-tab-text-font-size/5

    since you may want to try something similar for windows 8.

  • Hi, long time Opera user here. Since Opera 3, and in fact a paying customer at the time.

    Can someone explain to me why I should stay with Opera Next instead of some other, maybe less basic, Chrome clone such as Coolnovo which has mouse gestures, since I'm supposed to go to Chrome Market anyway hoping for some extensions that supposedly can give back old Opera features I want to keep using (and there are no extensions, as far as I'm aware, that can give me back customizable tab setting or table stack or a bunch of other Old Opera features I happen to like.And if there were they would be working with every Chromium browser).

    Can you give an estimate of how much such extensions would slow down the browser and clog the memory, since speed seems to be what Opera Next is supposed to offer in place of everything it used to offer?

    Also, since I'm supposed to use whatever extension Chrome Market offers to me, how is Opera going to guarantee to me, its user, that those third part extensions are safe and not, let's say, some kind of happy spyware? And should those extensions be discontinued, as it happens all the time, what am I supposed to do, go without and hope some other developer steps in?

  • ... Can you give an estimate of how much such extensions would slow down the browser and clog the memory, since speed seems to be what Opera Next is supposed to offer in place of everything it used to offer? ...

    The impact of any set of extensions for any browser will depend on both the particular extensions which are involved, the system itself, what other software might be running, and the usage load placed on the browser itself (eg: number of tabs open, Flash involvement, etc). The simplest extensions may consume little in the way of resources or have minimal speed impact; the most complex can have significant impact. In the case of Opera/Chrome/Chromium-lineage browsers, extensions each require an additional process running (by design, intended to keep a crash in one process from bringing down the entire browser).

    I've found the best approach is to simply try out some extensions and see what they do on your own system. Pick a typically complex website (or several), open tabs, and see what the browser does before installing the extensions, then install them and check the same sites again. All the while, keep active the other system-intensive software (if any) that you expect to have running at the same time as the browser is being used. The extensions are easy enough to install and remove, so that it's not that big a deal to test their effects, and what really matter to you will be the impact (if any) to your browser and other software, used in the way you normally do.

    Your other questions I'll leave for others to address.

  • Hi, long time Opera user here. Since Opera 3, and in fact a paying customer at the time.
    Can someone explain to me why I should stay with Opera Next instead of some other, maybe less basic>

    Are you using Opera Next or Opera 21? Opera 21 is the latest version of Opera deemed stable enough for general use. Opera Next is a beta or testing version. So if you are concerned about stability and safety, but want to still use Opera, Version 21 is a better bet for you than Opera Next. I've got 16 extensionn on my Opera 21 -- some are Opera extensions, and others chrome extensions.

    To use a Chrome extension, all you need is the Opera extension, called, "Download Chrome Extension.". The speed of my browser is still fine. At any time, you can deactivate an extension, or deactivate all of your extensions to test speed without it. And you can always delete an extension or extensions. So what's the harm testing to see if you like something, without becoming paranoid about it? One always must weigh, whether the feature is important enough for you to warrant the extension. I mean, everyone is different, but for me, there's no fun at all browsing, or it's just an essential item, and I'm not going to do wihout it. I'm quite happy with how the browser is performing right now. The speed is great.

  • my take is that many of the features werent originally present in webkit/blink, as well as the UI environment used for chrome and opera 15+

    it will most likely take time for the developers to make those things from scratch, although, there is one thing that i find inexcusable - the bookmarks... even chrome and maxthon cloud browser have bookmark managers, how come opera didnt? what were the developers thinking that the stash is an appealing feature?!

  • @usagigari

    I think the Opera developers originally had in mind bookmarks mostly with the Speed Dial (with folders).

    For the time being, try a good bookmark manager extension, like Neater Bookmarks.

    https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/neater-bookmarks/ofgjggbjanlhbgaemjbkiegeebmccifi?hl=en-US

    Also did you activate the bookmarks bar. Control P, and put a check in Show Bookmarks bar.

    To use a Chrome extension, all you need is the Opera extension, called Download Chrome Extension.

    https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/download-chrome-extension-9/?display=en

  • I'm using Opera 12 and very rarely Opera 22 since I like to use mouse gestures, so I rather use Coolnovo. 'Next' was shorthand for the new Opera with the new kernel.

    Thank you for your comments, but why should I use Opera with the Chrome engine instead than any other Chrome clone out there, since I have to be equally paranoid with both? (and yes, Chrome extensions can be really really nosy).

    My problem is, in Opera 22 I have to use extensions to have a functioning browser and still I don't have all the features I had with Old Opera without extensions. Not to mention options and customization, and they are very important to me.

    Also I'm supposed to fiddle with third party software that can or can not be right for the feature I need, can or can not install and uninstall cleanly, can or can not be abandonware, can or can not disappear without warning, can or can not be unsafe or bugged or coded by demented monkeys or made to send my data in parts unknown. Maybe I'm paranoid but there are examples of all of this in Chrome market.

    Also Chrome is made for light browsing and New Opera follows suite and their extensions are more of the same. I have hundreds of bookmarks and I like them ordered by nested folders. I also like to keep open dozens of tabs, and keep them in stacks on the right side of the screen. I like to set bars on the side of the screen or at the bottom and to choose what bars to show and what buttons go on them. There is not an extension in the green pastures of Chrome that can give me that. And if there was, I had no reason to stay with Opera rather than any other Chrome wannabe or, of course, the beast itself.

  • It's your choice. But I don't see your concern about uninstall. I've never had a problem with Opera 21, uninstall with regard to any Opera or a Chrome extension, or of deactivating them. It's simple. And if the extra Opera features -- the Speed Dial with folders, Discover,Off Road Mode, Stash, etc -- don't interest you, that's your choice. Go for Coolnovo (with those mouse gesturres). All I was passing along is that I'm having no problem using extensions in Opera 19-21. Also, with Opera 22 (as of today) you can use Opera extensions, as well as Chrome extensions. The Opera extensions are vetted closely by Opera for safety, so there's even less risk with them, than with a Chrome extension. In any event, even with the Chrome extensions, they're easy enough to uninstall.

    Not sure about your tab solution, lol, as you keep lots of tabs open. Many the extension TooManyTabs for Chrome would help, or OneTab.

    https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/toomanytabs-for-chrome/amigcgbheognjmfkaieeeadojiibgbdp

    https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/onetab/chphlpgkkbolifaimnlloiipkdnihall

    And there are some mouse gestures extension in the Chrome Store. "Cortaud" is a nice French word for "stocky," Etes-vous francais?

  • Can you give an estimate of how much such extensions would slow down the browser and clog the memory, since speed seems to be what Opera Next is supposed to offer in place of everything it used to offer?

    Once you install an extension you can go to Developer Tools (I think you have enable them under More Tools first) and run Task Manager. This will tell you how much memory and other resources it is currently using. It also gives you the process ID which you can use to look at it using Windows' Task Manager if you want more detail.

  • I'm not going to tell someone that their experience is wrong but I will add to the conversation something that seems to be rather obvious yet overlooked.

    IE has been the king of web browsers and it never had extensions. The key to it's success was that it was already bundled with Windows, that it just worked and was simple to use. Chrome's success imo is a mirror of just that. Open source, extensions, anti-Microsoft, etc.. appeals to a very small demographic. The thing that all the top browsers have in common is not the ability to add 3rd party functionality but that they are American and thus are marketed with gusto and shadiness. Google, like Micorsoft, bundles Chrome with a plethora of things, essentially hijacking people's systems. Got an iPhone? then you NEED to install iTunes. Have and Android phone? then you need to get a gmail account which you might as well connect to circles and + and all that crap. So you'll excuse me if I don't think fast speeds and extension are what rule the day.

    From my experience, extensions can add some much needed functionality but they do so in a way that rarely feels native to the browser. Presto had things that people didn't use and the beauty was that they didn't have to. The new thinking seems to be that a dumbed down GUI with finger painting capabilities is what people want, and I for one am glad because I think this will give birth to some new mavericks who will buck the monoculture trend and the current overall lack of creativity.(Adding a web portal and turning text items into pictures isn't what I would consider ground breaking)

  • Pretty much a load of tripe (but why doesn't that surprise me?). The Big Bad USA. The evil MS empire. The good European browser so misunderstood. Oh how wonderful Presto was but sadly... such poor marketing. What utter nonsense. Man do you need to get over yourself and wake up to reality. Thankfully Opera has done just that and it will be much better off for it in the long run ... yes, minus a few thousand whining geeks but with tens of thousands of new "average" users who couldn't care less about all the ultra configurable nature of Presto.

  • wake up to reality. Thankfully Opera has done just that and it will be much better off for it in the long run ... yes, minus a few thousand whining geeks but with tens of thousands of new "average" users who couldn't care less about all the ultra configurable nature of Presto.

    If we're going to talk about "reality", personally I think the reality is it was a business decision.

    Presto required too big of an ongoing commitment for both maintenance, compatibility and upgrades with declining market share in a desktop market that wasn't expanding. So they decided to cut their losses and build on top of someone else's engine. Which indeed has certain advantages.

    But the idea that it was done purely to create the greatest browser ever known to man or whatever is nonsense.

    The question now for realists is what should happen going forward, as I don't believe Opera is going to turn back to Presto.

  • From my experience, extensions can add some much needed functionality but they do so in a way that rarely feels native to the browser.>

    The extensions don't feel un-native to me. I'm not even sure what that word means. It's techno-babble 🙂 to me. The one's I like feel great! And I'm happy to have them. I don't at all agree with those who think extensions weren't a major part of Firefox's success as well as Chrome's current success. Google adopted the extension model for a reason, and I don't think it was just to off-load rogue software. Lol. And I am enjoying a good number of the extensions I've added to Opera.

    And drewfx, maybe Opera isn't thinking of creating, "the greatest browser ever known to man," but they are a company that wants to make money, and also, I believe they have pride in their achievements -- which have continued with the innovative Coast for Ipad. No reason to think they want to stop their work on desktop Opera. Maybe they do want to save bucks not having to develop the browser engine, but that gives them more flexibility to be creative elsewhere.

  • And drewfx, maybe Opera isn't thinking of creating, "the greatest browser ever known to man," but they are a company that wants to make money, and also, I believe they have pride in their achievements -- which have continued with the innovative Coast for Ipad. No reason to think they want to stop their work on desktop Opera. Maybe they do want to save bucks not having to develop the browser engine, but that gives them more flexibility to be creative elsewhere.

    Then we agree on something. 🙂

  • leushino said something, on june 5th
    Well, its not like Firefox expanded solely on IE being bad. What I remember is a several year slow push, that gave Firefox its markedshare. It really took off at some point where web devs would leave banners for "use firefox instead". But thats ancient times. And a push that used what... 8 years to achive good marked share?
    Chrome got its marked share over a few months of aggressive bundles. And then it got another bump from not being terrible.
    It is what it is, but meh. Thats nothing in itself.

  • What has caused me disappointment with Opera blink, is the lack of innovative implementation of ASA in OPERA browser. Opera Next, currently is nothing more than a google Chrome, which is updated according to the google browser.

    For those who wore PRESTO feel a great sorrow to be induced using a browser so no personality like this.

    In my case, I'm giving you a chance to OPERA to prove me wrong, that despite the engine being the same, we will have a OPERA with its own characteristics.

  • It's not Google Chrome. It has distinct characteristics. But this argument is getting tired . . . Let's move on!

  • Same old same old. You're right, lem... it gets old after a while.

  • It's not Google Chrome. It has distinct characteristics. But this argument is getting tired . . . Let's move on!

    I mean the really remarkable characteristics that make a totally different browser than another (Chrome).
    And I'm using the new OPERA at a time, and waiting anxiously for implementations that made the famous Opera. This is the reason we're here now believing that Opera will be able to maintain its characteristics with this new engine.

  • It's not Google Chrome. It has distinct characteristics. But this argument is getting tired . . . Let's move on!

    I mean the really remarkable characteristics that make a totally different browser than another (Chrome).
    And I'm using the new OPERA at a time, and waiting anxiously for implementations that made the famous Opera. This is the reason we're here now believing that Opera will be able to maintain its characteristics with this new engine.>

    It's okay, what you say, but you have to enjoy what is, right now. Focusing on tomorrow all the time is a recipe for misery. Right now, at this precise moment, I still enjoy this browser, Opera 22, with its unique and for me wonderful speed dial (with folders), and some of the other features -- Discover, Stash, Turbo mode -- that distinguish it from Chrome more than Chrome, Firefox, or Internet Explorer. If I enjoyed any of the other browsers more than Opera, I'd be using them right now instead of Opera. And I recommend that test for anyone. Use the browser you enjoy more right now! Don't be a martyr waiting for something. Yes, one hopes Opera will keep making it better. I understand it's a work in progress, and requires reprogramming a new engine, which is not an insubstantial task. And there's reason to trust the longterm excellence of Opera. But still, the test is for now. And if you're here because you enjoy it more than the other browsers now, focus on the things you enjoy about it, so you're not suffering in the waiting.

    BTW, I was just on this site reading about Firefox 29, and all of the complaints about the Chromification of Firefox. They've got an extension icon bar now that looks like Chrome, except the icons are so small, I can hardly see them. Those extension icons in Firefox make the Opera extension icons look reasonable, almost big, at least in my Windows 7.

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