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From Opera 12 to 20...a giant leap back for mankind

  • Those expressing negative opinions too harshly in colourful language are idiots who are not worth listening to. They could not program their way out of a paper bag.

    How do you react when others are overly critical about your efforts to create something? Do you work better with encouragement or constant nagging and bullying?

    It's basic psychology. If you really want to help improve any software product by providing "feedback" leave all of the rudeness and flaming aside. Just provide constructive criticism.

    Keep it brief too: nobody is going to even bother reading properly a rant of 700 words like that by tteksystems. Condense the main points into a bullet list:

    • Compatibility with web sites is vital. The new version is doing a great job there, except ... provide link to two or three broken sites
    • The Bookmarks Bar is OK as far as it goes, but we need to be able to import bookmarks from other browsers and export them as HTML. Searching, tags, or nicknames would be nice to if possible.
    • The Bookmarks Bar takes up space when not in use. Give us a shortcut to toggle it.
    • The most important feature is (add your highest priority here) is being able to customise mouse and keyboard shortcuts.

    If users could manage to do that without the insults, hyperbole, and melodrama, these forums might become a place where the developers would look for feedback. As it is, they probably don't bother.

    Thread titles, especially, are important. Flame-bait titles like this current thread are just inviting trouble. Even a slight change to the tone can make a big difference. Cut the sarcasm completely:

    From Opera 12 to 20 — A Step Too Far for Me

    1. I'll try to have shorter posts for those who can't handle reading 700+ words. Are thoughts over 700 words not worth reading? (The forum should adopt that as a rule if it's a problem.)

    2. My title is absolutely not sarcastic. Not sure how it is interpreted as such. This is not a flaming thread whatsoever, but I can see how it is aggravating (as shown by a few users) for anyone not only acceptive but advocating the omission of "Old Opera" functionality.

    3. I, for one, and most all others here are not insulting anyone. Don't use blanket statements for those who come here express their opinion. I know you'd like to put all of us malcontents into a group but that's clearly unfair.

    4. I'm very happy to be reminded that Opera 20 is still being developed. This only means that I'd like to share my opinion with even more vigor to ensure functionality isn't abandoned, but instead that it will be worked on because of user interest. If no one expresses this opinion, then the functionality could very well be abandoned.

    5. I have flamed no one. In fact, I am now being told that Opera 20 is "A Step Too Far for Me", implying my inadequacy. I'm sorry it's come to that. I didn't mean to offend you, pesala.

    6. Finally, the voicing of my opinion has a universally larger potential for change than those who only dictate to others to "stop whining". Talk about wasted breath, unnecessary posts, and a very strong indicator of the dictatorial nature of those posters.

  • My title is absolutely not sarcastic.

    Yeah! Right, and Neil Amstrong didn't actually land on the moon — it was all filmed in a studio.

    "A Step Too Far for Me", implying my inadequacy.

    What it implies is not inadequacy, but humility.

    “Hey guys, I realise that you have to rebuild all of the old features from scratch in the New Opera version, but it's not yet good enough for me to use yet. Please keep add as many features as you can, then I will try to get used to it, and may grow to like it.”

    That's a whole lot better than insulting comments like tteksystems made, which you think articulated the problem well: "This is pure arrogance. 1 year and so many upgrades later and I cannot find one good reason to embrace anything on the new Opera. It really stinks."

  • I just tried Opera 20 for Windows and I'm also very disappointed. Chrome engine in Opera? THAT'S AN INSULT TO ALL REAL OPERA USERS. I always used Opera because I had everything I couldn't expect from any other web browsers.

    Sorry Opera, I'm looking for alternative web browser now. Bye, bye!

  • @pesala
    [deleted]
    yes, I can.

    You need to have your potty mouth cleaned out with soap and water. It's very sad that you can't express yourself civilly.

    He's well known for being abusive towards anyone who criticises Opera whether warrants or not

  • o20 is still missing most of the features we liked,
    and already has a lot of new features we don't care about.

    Give us back o12 !!!

  • You're not going to get back your old Opera so here's a thought: since it was never taken away... USE IT! The last time I checked, Opera 12.16 was still usable or are you incapable of using the older version as well? Security patches are still being applied (as far as I know) so it's perfectly safe to use it. And here's another piece of information for you: install Opera 20 alongside the older version so that you can keep an eye on its development.

  • @colej2000

    He's well known for being abusive towards anyone who criticises Opera whether warrants or not

    If you mean me, I am well-known for being critical of the potty-mouthed losers and whiners who troll these forums, and who cannot make any constructive criticism without profanity, shouting, or ranting.

    Polite users who need some help getting to grips with changes new versions will always get at least some help from me, even if it's just a link to a previous thread, or advice to search first for previous answers before posting.

  • How to disable server certificate validation?

  • yes, I can.

    @withme: No you can't!
    I deleted your insult. Watch your tone or you'll get banned!
    I won't tolerate this.

  • Now here's a fact for you: Opera Presto is dead. The team that developed it is largely gone or been re-assigned.
    Just to clarify: It's still the same team. Of course, people will join and leave over time, but people who used to work on Presto are now working on Blink, and some even on low-end stuff on desktop or mobile.

  • but people who used to work on Presto are now working on Blink,

    Maybe someone is still there but as far as I recall they announced that most of the staff that used to be developing Presto is released or something like that.

  • This may be petty but I refuse to let it go that pesala thinks the title of this thread is sarcastic.

    The title is: "From Opera 12 to 20...a giant leap back for mankind". Please notice the word "back". You may not be reading the 11 word title sufficiently. Either that, or you may not be working with a correct definition of sarcasm. I know you don't like 700 word posts but 11 words...

    And leushino, thank you for the advice on continuing to use 12. I am doing exactly that. In fact, the only tab I use in 20 is for this forum. I just /love/ how fast and secure it manages Forums.Opera.com.

  • come on opera, give us paid version that has all the old features. those "old" features are ahead of many other browsers

  • but people who used to work on Presto are now working on Blink,

    Maybe someone is still there but as far as I recall they announced that most of the staff that used to be developing Presto is released or something like that.

    They who?

  • They who?

    Opera team, who else?

  • I agree with the TE, because i miss the side-panel, the favs and i used Opera for a long time, because i could check my Mails without having a separate Program and the new Stash is totally useless, because i have hundreds of Links ...

    If this is the future for Opera i will switch back to another Browser ...

    For all the Fans of the old Opera please think about to undo those changes or make an Plugin-System in the new Opera, so all could download the Side-Panel, the Mail-Client, the "Old-Style-Favs" and all other stuff, that makes Opera the great Browser it was before ...

    Regards

  • For all the Fans of the old Opera please think about to undo those changes or make an Plugin-System in the new Opera, so all could download the Side-Panel, the Mail-Client, the "Old-Style-Favs" and all other stuff, that makes Opera the great Browser it was before ...

    This is awful concept without PROPER integration in UI.
    You can do all of these in Chrome or in its clones.

  • @awzx

    but people who used to work on Presto are now working on Blink,
    Maybe someone is still there but as far as I recall they announced that most of the staff that used to be developing Presto is released or something like that.
    No, that was not the case. There were some false rumors being spread though various forums and tech sites, but that's always going to happen when people don't bother to fact-check.

    IIRC, about 90 people left in total, but only half (or less) of those were engineers (QA and developers). There were several hundred engineers at Opera at the time.

  • Opera team, who else?

    I'm sure they never said such thing.

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