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From Opera 12 to 20...a giant leap back for mankind

  • That's the spirit.

  • I've just installed Opera 20 yesterday, and after couple hours of fidling, I found it awful. It turned into Chrome, but with every bad thing about it that caused I didn't use it. I've used Opera since 2006, and stayed loyal to it ever since, and... it should just focus on further improving Opera 12.

    First of, I loved Opera for having minimalistic approach, with cards/menu on one line, and below the url bar with search. When you clicked it, a third bar appeared with bookmarks. In 20 there's no way to customize it, it took a while to find how to make bookmarks appear, but the third bar takes just so much space, and it won't hide. That's a huge minus and step back from the big space 12 offered.

    Then you have the starting page. In 12 you could easily customize, the google bar wasn't' necessary, though it was small and you never paid any attention to it. The windows to sites (I'm sorry, I don't know their name in English) were easily available, and you felt that the quick start page was all about them. In 20 you have a huge google bar with unnecessary options, and the windows are, well, you can't customize them at all. All the options were removed, as if the devs thought we were too stupid to use them. You CAN'T customize the looks at all anywhere (outside the background of quick start. Even more, now in 12 it automatically changed the size of windows, and in 20 they forgot to implement it, and instead of quick start page, you have scroll down for more page. Ugh.

    Another nifty future of previous Opera version was opening a window in the same page. Many links try to open in a new card, but right clicking the link and choosing "open" would open the link on the same page. In 20 it's gone. Why? No idea, maybe because Chrome also didn't have it? Or dunno. It just makes browsing more annoying now.

    There are also such small things like, hovering over a link, it would show the url next to the cursor after a while. Now it's on the very bottom, just like every other browser out there.

    There was something else I've spotted after couple hours of using 20, which really annoyed me and was a step back from 12, but I've already forgotten about it. All in all, I really don't want to use Chrome 20 ever again, and will just wait for Opera 13 with a new engine or something, that would be more compatible with more demanding sites.

  • There was something else I've spotted after couple hours of using 20, which really annoyed me and was a step back from 12, but I've already forgotten about it. All in all, I really don't want to use Chrome 20 ever again, and will just wait for Opera 13 with a new engine or something, that would be more compatible with more demanding sites.

    Pretty much everything you've said has already been said countless times so I'm thinking you haven't been following the Opera news very closely. To begin with, Opera Presto (i.e. the old version) is dead. Some of that development team are gone and some have been reassigned to the new browser. Opera Presto has not been updated in over a year (other than a few security updates) and it won't be updated so there will be no version 13 with a "new engine". My advice is to stick with the older v. 12 until such time as it is no longer compatible with your favorite sites. That is your only viable option short of going to another browser since you have such disdain for the newer Opera browser.

  • For me Opera ended at 12. No newer versions are worth using even for an hour.

  • I think most people using internet for surfing, looking for information and checking lates gossip on social media. For this purpose they only need a clean and simple browser, like Opera 20. My guess is also that most people using Opera don't know a sh.. about all technical stuff and add ons for their browser. when I look at computers to friends or people at work I have never seen someone having more than 10-15 folders with bookmarks.

    So, get used to Opera 20, I love this browser.

  • I think most people using internet for surfing, looking for information and checking lates gossip on social media. For this purpose they only need a clean and simple browser, like Opera 20. My guess is also that most people using Opera don't know a sh.. about all technical stuff and add ons for their browser. when I look at computers to friends or people at work I have never seen someone having more than 10-15 folders with bookmarks.
    So, get used to Opera 20, I love this browser.

    Exactly. It's a hard-sell message to those who think of themselves as "power-users" but the reality is that number of users is very small compared to the majority who don't need to configure everything under the sun. Speed... compatibility... stability. Opera 20 has all of this. The Opera Team is going in the right direction. Sure it will lose some old-timers who insist upon having the new browser set up exactly as the old, but it will gain many others who don't want or need this AND who do not trust Google and therefore would not consider using its Chrome browser.

  • I think most people using internet for surfing, looking for information and checking lates gossip on social media. For this purpose they only need a clean and simple browser, like Opera 20. My guess is also that most people using Opera don't know a sh.. about all technical stuff and add ons for their browser. when I look at computers to friends or people at work I have never seen someone having more than 10-15 folders with bookmarks.
    So, get used to Opera 20, I love this browser.

    Exactly. It's a hard-sell message to those who think of themselves as "power-users" but the reality is that number of users is very small compared to the majority who don't need to configure everything under the sun. Speed... compatibility... stability. Opera 20 has all of this. The Opera Team is going in the right direction. Sure it will lose some old-timers who insist upon having the new browser set up exactly as the old, but it will gain many others who don't want or need this AND who do not trust Google and therefore would not consider using its Chrome browser.

    I think you guys are too busy smelling your own farts. You grossly underestimate how many people are not just looking to be entertained but actually get some work done. That is a much larger demographic than the power user crowd.

    Also, if one does not trust Google why would Opera be an option? It uses the same engine as Chrome that Goolge contributes to. You cannot get rid of Google as a search option and only power users are going to even figure out how to remove it from the speed dial. You also need a Google account in order to have access to many of the extensions at the Chrome store which can be used with this browser and with so few options in Opera's repository, it becomes almost a must.

  • @jarmush

    For this purpose they only need a clean and simple browser, like Opera 20.

    OK, sounds reasonable, but what's wrong with Chrome, really? Seems like just the browser for those people. Opera, on the other hand, has always been known for its "power-user" features in the first place.

    @leushino

    AND who do not trust Google and therefore would not consider using its Chrome browser.

    And why the hell would I trust Opera then? After they betrayed their main userbase for some obscure reasons and since their browser is also close-sourced project just as Chrome, those two browsers don't make much difference to me in every sense.

  • Ha! So who do YOU trust? Tell me and you can be assured that there are a lineup of users who would tell you you're placing your trust where it isn't warranted.

    Opera did not betray anyone. Opera is trying to survive and I don't call that "obscure" reasons. The old browser never attracted much of a userbase and it was time for a change given the fact that Presto was increasingly difficult to correct (the truth is - it was a mess and Opera could not keep it compatible with many popular sites).

  • Ha! So who do YOU trust? Tell me and you can be assured that there are a lineup of users who would tell you you're placing your trust where it isn't warranted.
    Opera did not betray anyone. Opera is trying to survive and I don't call that "obscure" reasons. The old browser never attracted much of a userbase and it was time for a change given the fact that Presto was increasingly difficult to correct (the truth is - it was a mess and Opera could not keep it compatible with many popular sites).

    Yeah, I agree that site compatibility was one issue plaguing Opera but the real fact is, Opera ASA is a small Norwegian company and no matter what, it will never be able to compete with large American corporations. The "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" approach seems to be an even bigger failure however according to the usage stats that have Opera on a consistent decline. Alienating your loyal users in search of new fish in a sea you could never swim in is a bad gamble imo. Opera needs to be a specialized browser rather than a clone to big brother

  • But it doesn't have to alienate its loyal users IF they would have more patience and faith with the company. I refuse to give up on Opera. It's too early to say they've failed. It takes time to write a new browser from scratch. I started with Opera in 1999... that 15 years with the company. I still believe in Opera.

  • Ha! So who do YOU trust?

    Any open-source browser really. Firefox, Midori, Konqueror - just to name a few.

    Opera did not betray anyone. Opera is trying to survive and I don't call that "obscure" reasons.

    Survival is pretty much sufficient background for a betrayal. And, even if it really was a matter of survival (in what I don't believe), there could be other options to do it, but they came up with the easiest and stupidest one -- to throw all they have done in a bin and to switch to a completely other user base, with a completely new browser. Nuff said.

    PS: maybe now, in order to "SURVIVE", they have to spy on their users, how do I know? How do I know what might be their next big move in order to stay afloat?

  • As I've said in other topic - there are a few things which could be easily made by Opera devs, a few things which shouldn't be thrown and could be provided if not as a part of the browser then maybe as a separate extension written by Opera team and those things will help to convince old users to use new Opera's browser and to still support it, promote on the internet... I'm not thinking about e-mail client, but... simple bookmarks manager, some way to add new bookmark when bookmarks bar is closed, simple RSS extension similar to already extisting Smart RSS, built-in tab switching options now provided by Classic Tabs, perhaps some extension to make fast notes...
    I'm sure that Opera Blink would have been embraced by most users then. A change from Presto to Blink would have been an advantage, not a problem.

    Unfortunately instead of new, compatible with current web browser we got, well, of course tweaked and in some areas more functional Chrome copy, but still a bit to primitve copy. That's where the problem lays.

    And I know, some could say - it's natural, since new Opera let us to use extensions so now it's up to us to write a proper one... But then only differences between Opera an Chrome are SpeedDial and mouse gestures... Nice and useful but not so amazing for old users... We simply think that Opera should stay somewhere between giving us everything and giving us nothing saying that know we can write our beloved browser by ourselves.

  • well, maybe if opera is not developed under chromium, maybe a lot of people will consider.... you know why there are people still using opera browser instead of ggle chrome???? because they simply hate google, but still the opera (which is before a unique browser intended not for common people) is not using the same yucky platform as ever! sorry, i just really hate ggle and everything about it, and it is really heartbreaking to see that your before favorite browser is now as trashy as chrome.... really, i don't see why people keep on using such products, actually there's nothing special to them.... people are asking me why i am using opera, i simply say "chrome is only for common people", but then they are saying "opera is now based on chromium, what's the difference then?" ooh god.... i don't know what to say.... this is really horrible.... 😞

  • PS: maybe now, in order to "SURVIVE", they have to spy on their users, how do I know? How do I know what might be their next big move in order to stay afloat?

    I think you should find another browser. Opera is obviously not the browser nor the company for you.

  • really, i don't see why people keep on using such products, actually there's nothing special to them.... people are asking me why i am using opera, i simply say "chrome is only for common people", but then they are saying "opera is now based on chromium, what's the difference then?" ooh god.... i don't know what to say.... this is really horrible.... 😞

    And what I don't understand is: why are you here? If Opera is so horrible, why are you here? Why not find a browser that floats your boat and join their forum?

  • I think you should find another browser. Opera is obviously not the browser nor the company for you.

    Oh yes, I guess that's what you keep telling to everyone when you don't have anything else to say. I already have "found" another browser, but thanks for that useful advice.

  • i am using opera, i simply say "chrome is only for common people", but then they are saying "opera is now based on chromium, what's the difference then?" ooh god.... i don't know what to say.... this is really horrible.... 😞
    There are difference. Some are pretty obvious. Others, like the Google update tasks added to Windows and added to your Windows scheduler to run often are not so obvious.

    I'm so sorry this is so horrible for you. Maybe you need to get used to another non-Chrome based browser. I have a pretty full life and Opera by far is my favorite browser. If Opera dropped the desktop browser would be disappointed but not in agony. Life goes on.

  • Agree (to first comment), also using 12 so far don't mind 20 it's just missing tab stacking and my old bookmarks... how hard could it be to add features (or at least the option to features) you already had before!?

  • I think you should find another browser. Opera is obviously not the browser nor the company for you.

    Oh yes, I guess that's what you keep telling to everyone when you don't have anything else to say. I already have "found" another browser, but thanks for that useful advice.

    Then if you are using another browser and have only bad things to say about the Opera browser AND the company, you are really doing little more than trolling here.

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